Time to map out a plan for Villa's future
- Says blogger Matthew Turvey
Bosses insist referee decisions are wrong
Thursday 12th January 2012, 3:24PM GMT.
The region’s bosses today had their say on the red card rows and insisted something has to change.
They are all adamant the sport’s lawmakers are in danger of ruining the game with rules enforced by inconsistent officials.
Frank Lampard’s late tackle on Adam Hammill of Wolves was, according to referee Peter Walton, worthy of just a yellow card but Nenad Milijas was sent off at Arsenal by Stuart Attwell despite winning the ball.
Vincent Kompany joined the controversy after being dismissed for a two-footed tackle against Manchester United in Manchester City’s 3-2 FA Cup defeat on Sunday.
Mick McCarthy even held a debate with journalists about Milijas’ red – which Wolves unsuccessfully appealed – last month.
And the Wolves boss said referees are failing to make the right calls. “It’s always been the same if you leave the ground,” he said.
“But I think it’s up to the officials to pick and choose which are the right ones and wrong ones, which are the ones worth red cards and which are worth yellow cards.
“That’s their job, not my job.
“When I played, if you jumped in with two feet, that was seen as a bad tackle.
“You’d have been reprimanded then but you wouldn’t have got anything else.”
“They’ve got to make a decision and I accept they’re not going to get them all right.
“I forgive the referees for getting them wrong, but what I can’t forgive is the people who look at it afterwards and say ‘that’s OK – that was a bad decision but we agree with it’.”
Burntwood’s retired Premier League referee Alan Wiley insists the officials got it right on Lampard, Milijas and Kompany but McCarthy disagreed.
“Thank goodness he’s finished,” he joked. “He’d be wrong with Nenad’s. If Alan Wiley wants to come here, I’d argue all night and day with him because that was never a sending off.
“Alan has given his opinion, which he’s entitled to, but it’s wrong. He’s the first referee apart from Stuart Attwell that’s agreed with the decision.”
And Albion coach Keith Downing, a midfield hardman in his Molineux peak in the 1980s, admitted he’d be forced to change his game if he was playing now.
“My game was about destroying the opposition, not literally, but by winning the ball back and giving it to players who could create,” he said.
“I would have had to adapt. But I think we as footballers have to understand and take on board that once you’re tackling without a foot on the ground you are treading a dangerous line.”
Villa boss Alex McLeish insists there are still doubts over the red card system and clubs are paying the price.
“The rule for the last two or three years has been that once you have your standing foot off the ground you are deemed as not being in control,” he said.
“Having said that, there are a couple of instances – like Milijas’ – where he clearly gets the ball and intends to get the ball, so there is a grey area over it.”
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If Alan Wiley has come out in favour of the decisions then I have to question why?
Alan was a good well respected referee however he cannot be serious about defending the indefensible:-
Milijas – not worthy of a freekick, let alone a red card
Lampard – Definite Red Card
It is blatantly pbvious that Mr Wiley is trying to protect his job as a referees coach rather than doing his job correctly; lets hope he does not apply the same (idiotic) rule to his other job as a policeman
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They were holding a debate on WM last night’s phone-in. My view is, we need a ‘Sin-Bin’. The ref send a man off with a red. He goes in the Bin. Officials with views from cameras do a study, maximum 10 minutes. Back the decision, he stays red and off. Any doubt, yellow and back on the field of play. There can be no further discussion. Case closed.
The crowd pay to watch 11 v 11 but will accept electronics and blame the player for being an idiot.
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The major problem here is consistency or rather the lack of it! And most of the time, this can be put down to a problem the FA have had for many years, but have never sorted it out. The problem is the ‘Celebrity’ ref!
Far too many of our referees today walk onto the pitch under pressure to perform well, but make the mistake of thinking that dishing out red and yellow cards makes them a good ref. The best ref is the one you don’t remember. The one that let the game flow. The one that took immediate and decisive action with the minimum of fuss.
Then you’ve got the ‘Celebrity’! Stuart Clattenburg would go to the opening of a letter to get his name in the paper, as did Graham Poll before him. The list list goes on; Stuart Atwell, Chris Foy, Phil Dowd, Lee Mason, the consistently hopeless Andy D’Urso, Mark Halsey, Kevin Friend, Andre Marriner and finally, Lee Probert. No matter how many superstar players are on the pitch with them, that lot always take a ‘Look At Me’ attitude onto the pitch with them and if any players looks like they are going to steal the limelight, Bang, lets get the cards out!
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Sorry, that should have read Mark Clattenburg!
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Nice one Cyril! What a good idea. Couldn’t agree more. I’m getting to the point of losing interest as soon as the ref flashes red.
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Look, I know the refs have been poor BUT come on for crying out loud!
In football what goes around comes around – normally – you only have to look at the amount of times Berra has got away with rugby tackles in and around the box….
You can not blame our performances/position on referees – that can only be put at madmicks door, no one elses
wolves til i die
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Sin Bin idea is a fantastic idea. I’ve been saying this for ages, it will never be brought in though. Law makers are scared of change …
How the hell has Alan Wiley defended Lampard decision???
Nicky Butt got it right with Kompany sending off. “the ref was right, the rule is wrong’. The rule is there to protect the players but the tackles need to be judged on their own merits. Yes Kompany went in with two feet off the ground but he made no contact with Nani, and to his credit Nani stayed on his feet and was chasing back.
Not even a foul. It’s getting ridiculous.
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So how many yellows have been dished out for the imaginary card wave?
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Lets face it :- it’s the players actions that cause a red card .
So why not fine the player a weeks wages if proven (after video) that a red was justified ?
Is that too simple ?
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Suarez out eight games,Kompany four games.Allowing Man.utd to progress a tad easier than recent form would allow against eleven men.
Foy was laughing along with Ferguson after the Man City match scandal.The game is finished with celebrity whistlers.
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the yellow card rule : of not being able to review the yellow card given by a ref and whether it should be upgraded to a red or rescinded should be changed to the same rules as per red cards.
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5olmg. Cheers mate. We had an almost perfect ref against ManCity at The Hawthorns. Hardly noticed him and I can’t remember his name. The highest accolade possible. I watched some of ManCity v Liddypol last night and gave it neck for the constant fouling by the players.
Even a 3rd viewing of QI was better on Dave.
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It’s a very interesting thought, Cyril. The problem is Platini and his cronies are very much anti-technology not even considering a development as seemingly fundamental as goal line technology. What did he say ? “Wrong decisions and controversy caused by referees create excitement and discussion in the bars”. Difficult to get past that sort of thinking eh ?
Then there’s Blatter !
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All this Referee bashing is getting boring. When Managers clamp down on players that blatantly try and con the officials with dives and feigning injury and even more do now confronting the official to get a player booked or sent off then only then is it worth questioning the competency and consistency of the officials in black. Fair play used to be about not cheating. Football used to be a physical game. I don’t blame refs at all. It must be a nightmare not only to make a split second call on a decision but also rule out dishonesty
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It’s all about feet in the air, whether the ball is won or not doesn’t come into it. A slide tackle is what it says, not an uncontrolled jump-in potential leg breaker. I stated a few moons ago “Every referee should have a rule book study it and react to it”. Don’t tell me they don’t have time. Also they SHOULD be neutral whatever match they are officiating, and lets have more input from their assistants, that would help some. Players who rely on two metre jumps, lack pace and positioning qualities, never saw Bobby Robson or Don Howe resort to that type of thing. Graham Williams had the slide tackle spot on. Good shout Cyril, Rugby could learn Football a thing or two.
BOING~~~~BOING~~~JtH.
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Did any one see the tackle made johnson on lescot in the man city liverpool game !! did he not jump with both feet and strait legged !! did he get a red card no not even a yellow so wheres the rules on that one ref,
We all know that refs are more likely to come down harder on the smaler less fasionable teams.
If we can keep the score down sat that will be a good thing !!
UTW
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agreed that referees have big egos why do they have to lead the teams out in televised matches after that it seems they have a profile to keep up
but players from all teams spend 90 minutes
trying to cheat the ref and the other team so perhaps our teams could look at themselves first.
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I suppose Mr. wiley agreed with the ref who failed to send Lampard off admiting that the reason he did not send him off was because he knows that Lampard “is not like that” but if Joey Barton makes a tackle like that then he has to go. It’s a complete joke 1 rule for the “Big Boys” and another for clubs like us. Surely if the ref read into Milijas’ tackle he would realise that he’s not like that as it’s probably the first tackle he’s ever made!
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12 Cyril – I think you have me to thank for Lee Mason’s performance against Man City on Boxing Day at WBA, which was excellent!
As he and his two assistants approached the Woodman I spoke to him and said all we asked from him was fairness, honesty and no pandering to the whims of the multi-millionaires diving.
However, we have all witnessed season after season inconsistencies in decisions from match officials and cheating from ‘professional’ footballers who have no need to cheat at all.
What frustrates me also is the football pundits who refuse to say a player has cheated when clearly he has, either feigning injury from a tackle or diving for a penalty.
All in all, corruption is rife, from the FA down and will not be eradicated whilst there is so much money to be earned from the sport.
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the fa will never bsck down from supporting something theyve put in place, a bit like politicians, the refereeing body should be independant and should have a spokesman to answer the manager, a few seasons back when man utd were at our place , you could clearly see the ref laffin and jokin with the man utd players all touchy and feely, van nistleroy and clearly ronnie (ronaldo), and shrek, but when miete gave away a free kick the ref had to run after him and get his name, and give him a stern talking too, that was a definate celebrity reff, how disgusting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Excellent idea Cyril.
No chance of it being implemented in my lifetime due to the men in charge who jointly seem to have less than an IQ score of 5 between them!!
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There are many differences between the game now and 10 or even 20 years ago – pitches are better and quicker, players quicker, foot wear less sturdy – and FIFA can’t deal with the modern game.
Rarely do I agree with Mike, but I believe the pawn cocktail brigade want football to be a non-contact sport – basket ball on grass!
The card system is a joke – any tackle can be a yellow these days. Shorey was booked for not waiting for the whistle – petty and pathetic. What I don’t understand is how many mangers, players and TV hacks are ignorant of the rules – whether rules are good or not.
The fact a player “gets the ball” is no longer the FIRST consideration and neither is intent! The Ref looks at the degree of control and ‘the risk’ factor contained within the tackle. Leaving the ground or having foot/feet at 45 angle is deemed wreckless and invites a red card. Kompany did get the ball, but Nani also decided to jump when he saw the tackle coming in!
Finally, “diving” and being booked or not. Suarez is a cheat however many players do go down not because they’ve been clipped or to con anyone, but as a reaction to the anticipation that they will be hit – it is a natural reaction, especially at speed. So, who’d be a Ref, eh?
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6 I agree berra should of cost us about 6 penalties this season, i dont know how he gets away with it.
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Agree with 99% of the posts on this issue, our national sport is being ruined by overbearing officials. Personally, my major gripe with refereeing decisions is that of the inconsistency of decision within a single game, never mind different referees. Can anyone tell me what he 4th official does?
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With all the money swirling around the football world you would thought that at least some of it would have been put into technology to assist the referee.
The fourth official is, in my opinion, a waste of a resource. He would be better employed away from the touchline in an office with a bank of televisions witnessing the game. As and when a particular incident occurs which might require a red card being shown, the referee could consult him and confirm that this is the correct decision.
Usually (but not always) incidents of this kind follow a bad tackle in which a player is injured. This means there is a delay before play is resumed. Time enough for the 4th official to replay the incident and advise the ref.
I would also have all top class games reviewed by the football authorities the following day. This could be used to pick up on any misdeameanors (diving, off the ball incidents,crowd behaviuor, etc) that was missed during the match, and to assess the refereeing in general. Retrospective punishment could if necessary be applied.
What’s particulary disappointing is the lack of a proper format to discuss the issues between all the parties involved in the game. Football is being played in the 21st century governed by people still living in the Victorian era.
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2 Cyril.
An idea that is brilliant, sensible and workable. Three reasons why it will never see the light of day with the current cretins running our football. We are miles behind Rugby League where they embrace new ideas, give them a try and if they don’t work kick them into touch (no pun intended.)
First we had tackling from behind and we all applauded the banning of going through the players legs but they threw out the baby with the bathwater. Instead of leaving alone the tackle where a player stretches his leg around the player in possession which isn’t dangerous at all. Now it’s the sliding tackle ignoring the fact that not all of them are dangerous but it seems that our esteemed referees are incapable of telling the difference. I think we can all see where it’s going, a total ban on tackling leading to the sanitised football of 5 a side in the gym.
3 Bradley.
Spot on with that post. Especially if you throw in the celebrity players and managers that Poll and the current motley crew play up to. Then there is the little society of celebrity clubs Man Ure, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool and Tottenham that get the preferential decisions. I think the Kompany red card and the Johnson non card prove that despite their money City haven’t quite broken through that glass ceiling yet.
I usually end these posts by saying that PL refereeing stinks to high heaven but on consideration I think everything about the PL stinks to high heaven.
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5 Paul villa
Wolves fan here in peace
If it is that simple then why didn’t the ref send Huuton off earlier in the season for his shocking high tackle on Long?
You see it’s not just about the players, they will always make tackles & think that they can get to balls they can’t, that’s the nature of the game & long may it continue, but the refs just get so much wrong it’s untrue, now me being sceptical, the more a ref is inconsistent, the more the coverage they get in the press, the higher the profile the ref gets, the more money the ref makes on the back of it, see, winter, poll & the other clown who is on SSN every other day.
We now have Clattenberg who drives around in a 911′ that’s how much money these guys are making & as such should wholly answerable for their inconsistencies.
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The spectators can all see what’s wrong, the FA and Officials just spout the rule book at us. If, or when crowds fall away as in the late 80s, they may invent another Premiership.
That was 1991 and it coincided with increase of fouls, cheating, diving and, er, loads-a-munney. I almost forgot, mercenary foreign footballers who brought their silky skills, large bank accounts and new ways to con refs with them. Explain to an old fashioned man why we are delighted to finish 17th in the Prem. (I’m not by the way). The club rakes in millions, the players take it all off them and we see fewer games for more money.
It’s US, the supporters who are barmy, driven by our tribal love of our club and our Dad’s brain-washing when we were kids.
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