Wolves offer deal to stop fans standing

Wolves today announced they will talk with fans over 'safe standing' if supporters sit down for the rest of the season.

Wolves today announced they will talk with fans over 'safe standing' if supporters sit down for the rest of the season.

The club has issued several warnings to fans in the Jack Harris Stand to stop standing or risk the capacity behind the goal being cut.

Calls have been met with mixed success, but the club has now been warned by the city council if their fans persistently stand in the final four home games this season there is a danger the stand's capacity could be reduced. Molineux's capacity will already be reduced next season due to the stadium development.

Wolves chief executive Jez Moxey said: "If the fans in the Jack Harris Stand in particular refrain from persistently standing for the remainder of this season, then I'm serious about committing to the debate.

"I hope the fans will sit down for the remaining matches and participate in on-going discussions.

"The club is supportive of all-seater stadia and we believe it has improved safety and encouraged more people to attend matches.

"However, we have always regarded it to be important to engage in meaningful discussions with our supporters.

"This debate could take place via the Fans' Parliament initially, and include the Football Supporters' Federation if appropriate.

"However, one problem that seems to get overlooked by some fans is there is easily an equal number of fans who want to sit but can't because people stand in front of them."

Mr Moxey stressed he did not want the club to be seen as the "enemy within".

"Persistent standing is a major distraction when we ought to be pulling together to help the team remain in the Premier League," he added.

"Instead, we're worrying whether the local authority will enforce a reduction in capacity because of our fans' refusal to heed genuine advice."

A return to a safe form of terracing has been gaining momentum for some time.

A total of 145 MPs have signed a motion calling for a re-opening of the debate on safe standing.

And a petition has been launched nationally by the Football Supporters' Federatio.

It calls for clubs in England's Premiership and Championship to allow safe standing based on the successful German 'rail seats' model.

The petition was launched following a meeting in Westminster hosted by Bath MP Don Foster, who has tabled a bill in Parliament to have the ban on standing in the top two divisions overturned.

The petition aims to demonstrate that there is considerable demand and it contains more than 10,000 names.

Comments for: "Wolves offer deal to stop fans standing"

rich5wolves

Stand up if you love the wolves.......... oooops Sorry lol

wolves1877

A pie and a pint should do the trick eh Jez!!!!

huntywolves

what a load of tosh, all supporters pay money to watch our team play so therefor we have got the right to stand if we want to....

Takk

There is no such thing as a "safe form of terracing". Standing was gotten rid of for very valid safety reasons.

I remember my dad having 2 ribs broke in a crush and surge while fans were celebrating a goal back in the 80's. At the time I really thought he was going to die, watching him (and others) get carried away in the surge and trampled over. It wasn't even when football was at it's most popular and attendances were way down on what we have nowadays.

I never want to see a return to standing terracing.

Mark B

I think we should be voting for someone else come next council elections.

Dave Webb

Ooh,don't get me started on the idiots that stand for every excuse imaginable.I am disabled & if the person or persons in front of me stand up, I miss so much of the match & have even missed goals.I have mentioned this previously & been called a whinger & whiner and was even told if I didn't like it, then perhaps I shouldn't go to any spectator sports,especially football.

All seater stadia were bought in as a result of the Taylor report following the 1989 Hillsborough disaster, where 96 innocent people lost their lives. However this also followed Heysel( 1985, 32 deaths )& the 1985 Bradford stadium fire ( 56 deaths).

Safety must be paramount,but I believe that standing areas would be beneficial to the supporters who wish to stand, increasing the capacity of Stadia making tickets cheaper for all concerned.

Stadium design as been greatly improved, with facilities specifically for Disabled & able bodied people.Evacuation procedures have also been worked on.How long does it take to empty Wembley after an international match?.

Long gone are the days when I have seen over 50,000 for a Boxing day game & the "Old South Bank" with a capacity of over 18,000.

I'm sure if the various supporters clubs off all the 92 league teams, "Health & Safety",the Police & local authorities,with CCTV available to weed out the idiots, the F.A. & the football league were to get together, some suitable arrangements could be put in place, to allow standing areas be re-introduced, the corner of the South Bank being an ideal starting point.

tomo

I think it's reasonable so long as the fans will actually be listened to and not dismissed. Standing should return.

Ye Olde South Bank

Hhhmmm, let me guess: Jez will talk with fans then offer...

A pint and a pie?

Only kiddng! I meant a vat of hair gel.

wallheathwolf

Typical Council. Always interfering in things that shouldn't concern them. Why don't they just concentrate on the things for which they are elected.

Kent Wolf

"And a petition has been launched nationally by the Football Supporters’ Federatio.

It calls for clubs in England’s Premiership and Championship to allow safe standing based on the successful German ‘rail seats’ model.

The petition was launched following a meeting in Westminster hosted by Bath MP Don Foster, who has tabled a bill in Parliament to have the ban on standing in the top two divisions overturned.

The petition aims to demonstrate that there is considerable demand and it contains more than 10,000 names."

Is there an online petition?

James

Maybe they should ask the team to stop scoring so much at home. Then we might have a chance to sit down!

Sir Billy Quiet

I went to Newcastle Saturday and still some fans insisted on standing even though we were above the cloud line! I could see the sea from my seat without standing up!

Wolves have details of all supporters and where they sit. Maybe they should discretely identify the worst offenders (home and away) and deal with them outside of match days - i.e write them a nice letter offering to take away their ticket if they persist in standing?

I would love to see standing areas in the new South Bank but doubt it will happen.

Standing in the South Bank is normal and will never change, I would tell the Council to focus on more important issues - where's the evidence that standing fans have resulted in any H&S issues since this South Bank was built?

I went to Arsenal and we stood up all game, the stewards did nothing? do they have different laws in London?

You can Happy Clap standing or sitting.

Matt

Sign the petition here!

http://www.fsf.org.uk/petitions/safestanding.php?page=about&id=

Jaiwolf

People always stand in the kop and stretford end and I bet their local councils wouldnt dream of challenging them. Shouldnt Wolverhampton City Council concentrate on more important mattters?

sb

I think standing is fine if that's what you want to do, so I think there should be a standing area, it's not fair when people who have seats stand perhaps the people behind them can't stand for long and also children can't see so in some ways I think it's selfish.

Alex Rae's Butler

Sorry, regardless of your opinion of all seater stadia or safe standing stadia, this offer is a red herring. The Premier Legaue and FA will not 'stand' for it. Seats = £25 - £50 tickets, most prem grounds would need to be converted back to standing = cost and ticket price reduction. There are no players, ex players, fans reps or consultants on any of the boards relevant, the powers that be will take the easy, safe, cost effective approach.

The persistant standing in the Jack Harris aside, this is partly an empty promise from Moxey as he knows the chances of this happening are slim / none, and slim just left town for an away trip to Borussia dortmund where you can stand.

North Carolina Wolf

“Persistent standing is a major distraction when we ought to be pulling together to help the team remain in the Premier League” - I would say that's the least of our problems.

Have a nice day.

Sir Lupi

If you can't stand then I will not be going anymore.

I will sitdown at home and watch the game instead.

If you are disabled, sit at the front.

If your scared your dads gonna break a rib, sit in the Billy Quiet.

I stand at the back off the Jack every home game as do all of us in the top five rows, no one has ever complained. This will never change as everyone else wants to stand, if it does, I will not go anymore because I love standing and singing, I always have done since going barmy in the choir as a kid.

Football is being ruined by 'finding something to do quango councilors,' who never go to games, who do not understand what saturdays are all about.

The Wolves had better not roll over on this one, it costs allot of money to watch this under performing team.

Stand up if you love the Wolves.

Sir Billy Quiet

3 - huntywolves - refer to 6 Dave Webb below.

What do you suggest Dave does?

If you pay for a seat you have the right to be able to use it without someone standing in front of you?

Wanderer

12) If that happened the South bank would be very quiet the following game...

People should be offered the option of standing its simple and when properly managed safer IMHO...

The disasters in the 80s had more to do with the lack of fan management and control... Standing wasn't what killed or injured, it was the fences and lack of police at the gates... On both previously highlighted incidents there was the old 'Liverpool Rush' at the gates 2 minutes before kick off... The fans in the stands who didnt have tickets were to blame just as much to my mind...

And yes, you may get a couple of bruised ribs, but I saw a 10 year old take his front two teeth out about a month ago, you guessed it, he tripped over a plastic seat!!

Bertie

3,9,5 FGS get real. In the same way WWFC can't be blamed, neither can you blame the local council. This was Government legislation following the Taylor report in the late eighties.

I was a regular on the old South Bank in the days of mixed terracing and looking back it's a wonder there weren't some awful accidents with surging crowds and metal barriers. I particularly remember the Wolves v Leeds League match when we stopped Billy Bremner's lot winning the double and Leeds fans crashed the gates, dozens of them. Mayhem, but we'd all had a pint or two and the atmosphere was EEElectric !

I think there is a case for properly sectioned and protected standing areas, but, it needs to be debated at club level once the legislation is there.

I just wish some people would understand this is happening at Stadiums all over the country, not just Wolverhampton. What if we all decided we'd all start driving on the right hand side ?

Noisy

Takk - no such thing as safe standing? When was standing dangerous? I am sick to death of hearing Hillsborough - caused by fences and bad policing and Bradford - a fire in a wooden seated stand quoted as justification for what was only ever a scheme to deter a certain 'element' (and a lot of decent working people) from attending football by pricing them out. I occasionally go to watch Premiership rugby and stand every time - no problem (despite the fact that the Taylor report was supposed to apply to all sports grounds). Why are football fans not capable of standing? Anyone with a season ticket in the SouthBank knows what it's like - if they want to sit they should move. If they want to be in the Southbank for the atmosphere then they should remember it is generated by the stadnign fans.

WOLVES:)

i think you should be aloud to stand and if your disabled that sit at the front !!

david

No. 3 you say you have a right to stand. Maybe but you also have a responsibility to others who have paid good money and who have a right to sit, especially those who may be behind you and have paid to see the match not you.

If you stand others will not be able to see what they have paid for. You are being selfish.

If you sit down others will be able to see the match AND you will as well. That may be unnatural for you BUT it is fair and reasonable. You do not have a right under the current ground regulations to spoil the viewing of others.

You may find it so-called fun to stand up but the overwhelming majority of supporters pay to watch the match - they do not pay to watch someone spoil their view of the match.

If standing up is more important to you than watching the match and letting others get value for their money, please go and watch pub football on Sundays!

And don't blame the club or the council. They are working within the law and the guidelines they have to - and doing it very well.

Let me repeat. You do NOT have the right to spoil the view of the match for other people. YOU do not NEED to stand to view the match and that is why we go.

bob de wolf

Sitting kills the atmosphere and the club needs the vocal support for the remaing matches. If the council insist on pursuing this then let the Wolves fans vote against them at the next election and put some one else in.I stasrted watching the Wolves in the 60's in the old north bank and what a great atmosphere that was. Keep the faith

wolvesayi

I think current grounds are far safer than the past terraces. But I feel standing can be incorporated with disabled fans taken into consideration too. In Germany they have seats as well as standing incorporated together.

When I sit at games I feel crushed and have no room either side of me or leg room. I'm not the tallest or widest but I find it uncomfortable at times. Maybe if you could sit more comfortably people would! Also I tend to graze, cut and bang my legs if we score and I'm sat down.

My incorporation of standing would have same number of seats on each row in South Bank but have a four feet high (could be lower) safety barrier on each row this would reduce risk of crushing. I understand this may look ugly when empty but would allow people to stand safely. The stand should have a maximum capacity of the number of seats and you must stand where your seat is!! For disabled supporters I think they would sit in an area raised above a standing height. We may lose some seats but helps accommodate them and not obstruct their view. Newcastle's disabled area in away end is on a raised area above a section.

As for the disasters previously mentioned. Id say Hillsbough was caused in part to over crowding but allocating a seat where you can stand would reduce risk of crowding. I'm not familiar with the events of Heysal apart from it made English clubs miss European competition for 5 years (I think?!). The Bradford fire deaths where caused by wooden stands which we do not have now. Standing had little to do with these deaths.

Lord Molineux

18) Sir Lupi

"Wolves had better not roll over on this one"

Doh !

This goes beyond Wolves and the local council. It's the law of the land.

There may be a simple solution.

If you continue to stand and Wolves are forced to cut the capacity, you may not get a seat and you'll be able to sit at home like you want.

You may think that somebody's Dad breaking a rib is of no consequence, but, just ask relatives of Hillsboro, Heysel and Ibrox.

The difference of course is they were standing on concrete terraces with iron barriers, you are standing up in the comparative safety of the seating area.

The clue is in the word...seats !

There's a fair few people with longer memories and experiences than you, sunshine.

Moxey's har gel

I am seriously committed to the debate?

Jez, let me tell you, its not safe now.

Saw a kid and mother making it to the exit vs Spurs, just as we scored, it could have been a disaster as people rushed back in to steps where there is no barrier.

Id take a look at the real risks rather than the imagined ones.

Moxey's har gel

6: You are also bang on.

I took my son to his 3rd game last time out.

Guess what, he couldnt see it.

Thanks South Bank.

bradmorewolf

This is a classic case of lack of choice. Some want to stand some sit there is no middle ground. Until standing is brought back this will continue.

But on the issue of standing I think glastonbury and other gigs look very dangerous and they should perhaps be made to sit on deck chairs.

Farmer Ted

22)Noisy "When was standing dangerous ?"

How naive ! You have obviously never been in a capacity crowd surging back and forth as play dictates.

You seem to forget you have to add in other factors, like Alcohol and selfish people with no common sense.

So you're sick of hearing about Hillsboro' (You clearly don't remember other tragedies) Go and have a chat with the guy who lost his two teenage daughters crushed to death along with the other poor sods. They were standing.

soggy_wolf

There's no reason why safe standing areas can't be allocated in the new stadium. It nullifies all the arguments about blocking others views.

If standing is inherently unsafe, why can you stand at Rugby, Cricket and German football matches without major incidents? While there is an element of hooliganism at football that is not at other sports venues, it should have been dealt with by other means, i.e. competent policing and identification of the culprits. In over 20 years since the Taylor report, we've had pitch invasions, racism, flares being thrown, riots, stampedes and in-fighting between fans. These were all things that all-seater stadia was meant to render extinct.

Regarding Heysel, Valley Parade and Hillsborough..... the courses of action to take seem clear; ban cigarettes and ban Liverpool fans.

bangkok wolf

no.4 + 6

30,000 turning up without tickets caused the crush at Hillsborough not fans standing.

If the FA made the match all ticket and sold 8000 standing tickets no one would of died.

Having the seat in front of you when you stand stops the push you would get years ago.

If you don't like us standing move to the Billy Wright.

no. 16

Spot on mate.

Making grounds all seater is not about safety but money.

The FA don't want us standing and sing as they wont get as much tv money because the grounds wont look as good on tv.

Anyone who has seen German football will know what I mean.

macca

5 MARK B

SPOT ON VOTE THE COUNCIL OUT NEXT ELECTION

only trouble is they will only be replaced by another load of prats

chris hoggard

Bertie, Remember the Leeds game well.No question it was dangerous,then we had that Liverpool game in 1975,again loads of Scousers went in over the walls and over and under the turn stiles.Also remember that 1981 semi final at Hillsborough,with the Spurs fans being pulled out of the Leppings Lane end at half time.If only there had been a proper assessment of the risks that day the subsequent disaster could have been avoided.The other issue is allocate one seat to one person,that is far easier to identify troublemakers.The last thing we want to do is go back to the yob culture of the '70s and'80s.

Poorthorns ONLY 18,000 home fans

Relegation battle going on, last 4 home games ( 1 against Sandwell town) and your asking the southbank to sit down hey jez? Hahaha lol

GET REAL

Sir Lupi

Lord Molineux 'its the law of the land'

Erm, no it isnt, or I and thousands of others would be arrested every Saturday, for breaking the law.

Go to the crucible and watch the snooker sunshine.

Aquarius

31)FT Well said, something we should all remember, but, there again when have human beings ever learned from their mistakes.

You can see from some of the inane comments on here.Sir Lupi and Noisy ? I despair.

There was some guy answering a quiz question on television this week. He was asked what political party used the colour blue.

He said Labour !

That's the level of intelligence of some people we share this planet with.

Simon in Oklahoma!

If you take the view that standing on a terrace is dangerous because of Hillsborough, then surely sitting in a seat is equally dangerous because of the Bradford fire.

Hillsborough had a dozen things go disastrously wrong long before fans even got onto the terrace. The terrace was the location of the disaster, not the cause. I doubt if the same section was seated that the outcome would have been any different under the same circumstances.

Also, yes, the South Bank was dangerous when it had 18,000 fans packed in, but not quite so when there were only 1,000 stood on it. Something in between could easily be designed to be safe. (i.e. width rather than depth, proper barrier spacing, a safe capacity etc), and with a standing area avaiable there would be less standing in seated areas.

Anyway...The Football Licensing Authoirty rules (adopted by the Premier League) do give the Local Authority the power to license each individual seat, & considers persistent standing as a cause to reduce the capacity until a stadium is safe. But they need to prove it is unsafe.

( http://www.flaweb.org.uk/docs/publications/pubs/stndinst.php )

These rules are comical though. They state they can't do anything to prevent standing or incidents during moments of excitement or for people getting to & from their seat...so the rules ignores those moments & focus entirely on fans just standing doing nothing, when there's nothing interesting to watch!

Logic would suggest if a stand is proved to be safe during the moments of the greatest excitement, ie when 5,000 people go crazy simultaneously...then how can it possibly be unsafe or uncontrollable when an individual just stands there!

Standing is apparently 'theoretically' unsafe because there's no barrier to prevent falling over the seat in front, and a falling person could 'theoretically' have a domino effect & knock everyone down. It also suggests people sitting are less racist!! Admittedly a seated crowd is easier to control, but are Wolves' Stewards & Police failing to maintain control when everyone is standing?

Here's the definitive proof standing is unsafe...The FLA rules state that they are based on TWO reported incidents where people were hurt! It ignores the fact 20 clubs x 20 games x 25,000 x 10 years = 100 Million spectators haven't had a incidents or injury because of standing!

So considering the South Bank alone, nearly 20 years old...say 20 yrs x 5000 x 20 games = 2 Million spectators...how many people have injured themselves or those in front cause they were standing. Remember, it's not when there's a moment of excitement, or getting back from the bog tripping over seated people whilst carrying your drink & burger..but when they just stood there?

Although personally I don't agree with people standing for no reason...cause it forces me to stand when I'd rather sit, I believe it is entirely for the club to decide what’s in the interests of their customers & the Council shouldn't be able to interfere.

This is also 2007 legislation, so why is it a problem now? The South Bank hasn't changed, & fans behave as they've always done. No one gets hurt...and surely the club, who are legally required to keep records or reportable incidents, can prove that persistent standing is not a safety hazard in any way.

One interesting little loophole is that as long as you are ‘excited’ by what you see during play, you are outside the scope of the FLA's legislation and beyond the Council's jurisdiction.

Noisy

Farmer Ted - I did not say I was sick of hearing about Hillsborough - I said i was sick of hearing it used as a justification for all seater stadia. I've stood on plenty of packed terraces thanks and loved every minute - yes I've got squashed against a few barriers and lost my mates when I've gone 20 steps down after a goal, but modern design and reduced capacities make this a thing of the past. Actually I happened to go to the Sheff Wed v Liverpool league game at Hillsborough in the 88-89 season as I was living in Sheffield at the time. There were two big side areas behind the goal and a small central area. The tragedy happened becasue fans were allowed in too fast and pushed to the middle section where there was no escape onto the pitch or out sideways. If there were no fences nobody would have died. Other tragedies - Ibrox '71 no I don't remember but I know it happened on steps outside the ground. Heysel I watched on TV - it was caused by a collapsing wall nothing to do with terracing. As I said every other nation and every other sport in this country can cope with standing so why is it impossible for us?

chris hoggard

The Liverpool game was 1976,not 1975.But it was still dangerous.We must not go back to those days.

bullys ambition

Am I a bit thick or something ? If there were standing areas with say 4ft between barriers u won't get crushed full stop.Allocate these seats to supporters who want them on a 1st come 1st serve basis and let the rest sit down.I stand up every game in the SB with my boys but do sympathize with people that want to sit. Split us up evenly and every fan will be happy

bullys ambition

36 allocate these areas I meant LOL sorry

Noisy

38 Aquarius - thanks for you well reasoned response to my 'inane' comment - nice to know the standard of debate is so high. Maybe you stick to horoscopes for advice?

Sir Lupi

Firstly, can people stop blaming Hillsborough on standing.

The fans were penned in, the police lost control, the safety regulation certificate at Hillsborough was 10 years out of date!

I dont want people to be injured or die, and nobody will be if standing areas meet certain safety measures, like capacity control, facility standards and good stewardship.

Are you going to stop people standing when your team scores? Are you going to sit down at a gig or concert, the lower divisions are allowed to stand, so its not the law of the land as Lord Dimwit claims.

I want to stand, you want to sit, its not rocket science to organise safely, it just takes a bit of common sense.

With public entertainment nothing is 100% safe.

Im more afraid of fireworks going off in the wrong direction and hitting a seated fan, like one did at our home game against Newcastle 2003.

Dave Webb

"If you are disabled, sit at the front."

"Stand up if you love the Wolves."

Just 2 of the lines of wisdom from Sir Lupi.

Yes, I AM disabled, but due to the majority of the seating being for able bodied supporters, the disabled seating at the front (where more often than not is out in the pouring rain ), is amongst the first to go, so I have to sit where I can get to with my walking stick.

I'd love to see standing re-introduced, as it would possibly reduce the price of match day tickets,but unfortunately Jez & his wishes & promises are about as worthy as a pie & a pint!

So before "You stand up if you love the Wolves" show some consideration for the people behind you, who may well be disabled or shorter & missing vital parts of the match!

shewolf

I used to love standing on the South Bank- the surge of the crowd depending on where the ball was being played.

I had my little spot every week where I stood with my crowd. If I was by an idiot, I oculd move. All seater doesn't really give you this opportunity.

I think some of us are looking at this through rose tinted spectacles however and I do recall urine everywhere including on my jeans on one occasion( and for the record it wasn't mine yuk!)

I cannot see Moxey going for it becuase of the reduced revenue that standing would merit.

But just to keep on about this, would like to see a student season ticket, no fees for booking tickets and us fans treated better as customers.

I would also like to know where we are moving to from the NB- anyone know what the plan is?

FInally, my husband has one of thse bricks in the NB, what is happening to them?

Andrew Barnes

Wolverhampton council need to concentrate more on the issues that effect everyone, not just the few thousand who fork out their hard earned money to watch Wolves. If those of us who pay hundreds of pounds a year to watch wish to stand (I am 2 rows from the back where everyone stands anyway) then we should be able to do so. The council need to work with the police on the kids roaming the streets, smoking drugs outside council houses and REAL issues of crime that effect ALL residents of the town!!!

one

If we got rid of the seats and introduced standing we would not have anything to break and throw at away supporters think about it doh.