Time to map out a plan for Villa's future
- Says blogger Matthew Turvey
Chris Brunt expecting Scott Carson to stay at West Brom
Tuesday 31st May 2011, 11:29AM BST.
Albion captain Chris Brunt today handed predecessor Scott Carson a vote of confidence as the Baggies continued their keeper hunt.
Boss Roy Hodgson is targeting a new No.1 in the summer as doubts persist over Carson’s long-term Hawthorns future.
But, with the current Albion shot-stopper currently with England preparing for Saturday’s Euro 2012 qualifier against Switzerland at Wembley, Brunt has paid tribute to his friend, whom he replaced as skipper when Carson was dropped by Roberto Di Matteo in January.
“Scott’s done well for us again this season,” said Brunt.
“He came in for some stick around Christmas time but since then he has done very well. Scott is still only 25 and, potentially, he is as good as any goalkeeper I’ve played with or seen.”
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A goal keeper is only as good as the defence in front of him. look at the top keepers around and they all have rocks in front of them, we had Meite,tamas(vs blackburn)and how many own goals the others scored(lost count)
couple of solid defenders in and a vote of confidence and we could already have a top keeper (CARSON)
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We do need another keeper to vie for the No.1 spot, and to give Scot competition.
BOING~~~~BOING~~~~JtH.
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#2
I agree but we did that with myhill, who could we bring to vie for the No.1
Robinson?, Green?, Do you think we could get Foster? and then what of Myhill.
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True Carson will get better, as did David James with age, but when you are prone to the blunders both are, you don’t lose that,also true to some extent about defence in front of you, & a poor keeper can look ok In front of a good defence,but a good keeper should shine in front of a ordinary defence.
Carson Is the worst keeper we have had atleast In my lifetime ,Im 48,Myhill has done nothing wrong hasn’t been given a chance & is twice the keeper Carson is.
carson will continue to cost us games If he continues between the sticks.
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#4
Not sure about the worst,how about(dodgey)crichton or (bean poll)adamson lol or maybe zubabular or however you spell it.
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Terry Doyle
Worse than Paul Crichton, Chris Adamson and Tony Lange?
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got to agree with no 4.
carson gives other teams 2 goals start, we play catchup after that.
just think how good we realy are on a level playing field’
top 4 and europe on the horizon, no cowboy kit carson please.
he will never be a jonny ozzie no matter what defence we give him.
look at england croatia – point proven.
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I do get annoyed with people who harp on about mistakes Scotty makes. All sub-£10M keepers make gaffes, I don’t think Carson makes more than any others and I know he makes fewer than most.
It’s all very well to highlight them but with keepers it’s “cheap, stays fit, doesn’t make mistakes – pick any two”.
And one of ours still has to be “cheap”.
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There’ll no doubt be numerous posters who take up the opportunity to bash Carson here. This argument’s gone on for months on here so no need to reignite it fully, but assuming Carson isn’t our number one next season, who realistically should it be that’s significantly better? How about the critics give us some answers instead of posing questions?
Final gripe- this idea that Myhill is better than Carson, how many have actually seen Myhill play more than 3/4 games? 2 successive managers have decided he isn’t as good. Also, Myhill was dropped by Hull for too many clangers.
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Warren
Metaphorically, you took the words out of my mouth.
If Terry view that Carson is the worst keeper we have had in his lifetime, either he is
A) Very gifted that he can read, write and use a computer at the age of 14 months.
Or
B) He has only recently began to attend games.
No offence Terry, but even among the Carson detractors, you will struggle to get backing for that claim.
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I wonder how irrational we can get on this thread if the posts keep coming. We’ve already had ‘worst keeper for 48 years’ and ‘he gives the opposition a 2-goal head start’. Lets see if we can better that…..’Carson was to blame for 95% of goals conceded last season’ perhaps, or ‘Carson wouldn’t get in Bustleholme U10′s’.
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4..Myhill let at least 2 goals in every game he played this season. ok wew were going through a rocky period but I don’t think he’s better than Carson.
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If only he could kick straight and catch a ball then all our problems would be solved. We are a club thats trying to move on but with Carson we won’t. A squad keeper at the most for me.
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Carson for England!!
Young for a keeper, a lot of experience and the only present England international in our squad. What more do some fans want?
Do you really not remember the 90s no. 4? If we had any of our previous decade of keepers (excluding Kuszcack) we would not be sitting 11th at the end of this season. He is no Luke Moore. Scott has more good games than bad ones and our attacking style leaves spaces at the back. We need strong competition for scott and I’m sure he would relish the challenge. As for the boo boys, there are pleanty of Man U shirts avaliable at JJB. They have loads of ‘fans’ who don’t apreciate what they’ve got. I once heard a plastic Manc berrating Beckham because he hadn’t scored for a month.
Carson will grow and will be a regular England international. His mistakes will start to be ironed out and his confidence will one day return. We would be idiots to chuck him out now and we are idiots for berrating a talented player who performs off the back of confidence.
I’m sorry if I’ve gone on a bit but I feel very strongly about the Carson question and I’m not sure we all know what we have here. Support the club and all the players come September.
Boing Boing
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Sorry I meant August.
Boing Boing
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#14
i think you should rule Alan Miller to, cuz he was a great keeper for us in the 90s
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(3)
Keeper,
I’ve stated before “Eiji Kawashima, Japanese international keeper”. Saved a penalty against England, remember?. Should be able to push Scot,Pal.
BOING~~~~BOING~~~~JtH.
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Give him the NO.1 jersey again. He’s young and learning. He’ll be more solid with every game/season he’s trusted with. We need to concentrate on defending throughout the team and the rest will follow.
We won’t geta better keeper for the right money. Lets not be fickle. Players are human and everybody needs experience to learn their trade.
Myhill will be a good replacement if he fails. Simple.
Boing-Boing!
Carlton Cole to join us? ;)
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JTH
yes i remember and if my mem serves me right he conceds about the same amount of own goals as scotty to, lol;)
When sir Roy keeps carson as number one we will all back him, right?
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Are we going to have this debate every week during the summer?!
I’m not a fan of Carson’s and I don’t believe he is a keeper that can be trusted over a season – simply doesn’t command his box well enough and certainly has enough clangers to his name in an Albion shirt and previous clubs for that matter.
Couldn’t agree more with Warren though – if we are to replace him we have to do so with someone better and who is out there that is a realistic target and genuinely an improvement?
Although I can’t really judge whether Myhill is good enough or not based off the handful of appearances I’ve seen of him I would have liked to have seen more of him and do feel that he was harshly dropped. Has never let us down to date so I can only assume the previous and current manager have seen something on the training pitch that I haven’t in the few matches he’s played for us.
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JTH
Last bit was a question mate.
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I said last month that I hope we get a new keeper and let Scott go. Not because I don’t like him but because I’m sick to death of going over this argument again and again. I think Purgatory will be inhabited by me and the Carson haters spouting off spurious facts about him.
Have half the people on here actually read what Chris Brunt has written? As for better keepers, Alan Miller was decent as was Stuart Naylor but never came up against the quality of team or players that we do now. Even Ossie, good as he was never got near an England call-up and I think the mists of time sometimes colours people’s judgement.
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Don’t want to keep throwing this out there but Opta stats for last season show that Carson had the worst saves to shots ratio in the Prem and made equally the same number if errors that led directly to goals as Gomes and Green, more than any other keeper – although Gomes saved 20% more of the shots at him than Carson and Green 10% more.
Fact is Carson was STATISTICALLY the worst keeper in the Prem last year.
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LMS
And STATISTCALLY what team exposed the goalkeeper the most ?
I agree with bully, Carson is on a hiding to nothing, and for his own benefit he should go.
I await with mock anticipitation to see who the next target of derision and loathing is.
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23
Good work mate but the Carson fan club will still not have it i’m afraid , there are none so blind as those who will not see.
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LMS
If you want to throw that stat out there again, then I’ll throw out there again that you can’t compare number of saves from different shots. The keepers at Stoke, Blackburn, Fulham etc etc wouldn’t have been faced with anything like the same number of clear-cut chances. It’s much easier to increase your saves-to-shot ratio is every one you face is a long-range pot-shot or looping, defected header in a packed penalty area.
Does Opta have a stat for number of clear-cut chances each keeper has faced?
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Like TRBH I too am fed up of this debate – so lets sell him…. i reckon half a million for such a useless keeper will be about right… unless you perhaps feel that a 25 year old in the current England squad may be worth a bit more… but then you can’t have it both ways.
So sell Carson for half a million and buy Foster or Kuchsaz (?), or Hennesey or or any other regular prem / international keeper for around 5 – 8 million…. but get ready to sell whichever one we buy for half a million again next year when they turn out to be liable to make mistakes.
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LMS
2009/10 OPTA Premiership goalkeeper of the season:
USA no.3- Marcus Hahnemann.
Would you say he’s better than Hart, Van Der Sar, Robinson and Reina? If Hahnemann’s not the best, then it’s difficult to label Carson the worst on those statistics alone…..
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LordsMyShepherd
I said to myself I’m not going to comment on the same old rubbishagain till I read your rubbish.
Who was the judge of his “errors” ’cause as you know he is responsible for organizing the back handers to FIFA officials, according to some, others don’t agree.
Just another example in your flawed statement,
were the two goals that come from Meite’s error’s in the last month included in Carson’s
“worst saves to shots ratio” or error’s that led to goals?
Adéu
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PS. The only 2 statistics that really matter are how many we score and how many they score.
Adéu
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Wall Heath (25)
Because myself and others attempt to redress the balance on some, frankly, ridiculous claims reference Carson, you cry “fan club” Absolute nonsense.
Some of the levels of critisizm, untruths, and blinkered, nay blind assessments of Carson`s performance are at best ill educated and at worst despicable.
If treating ANY player with a degree of fairness constitutes being in his fan club, then……..Guilty as charged.
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31 Wbaforever
Point taken but it does not alter the fact that you are backing the wrong horse , how anyone can rate him and think he is up to the job is frankly beyond my comprehension, always has been and always will be , unless he improves beyond recognition.
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Pity the 41 year old won’t sign, he could have taught Carson so much
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Warren, No 6: Paul Crichton? One of the Grimsby cast-offs? I feel slightly ill at the memory. To watch his frightened face as Wolves hammered three past us in the first 15 minutes of a 4-2 win at The Hawthorns made me think, at the time, that our great club would end up on the scrapheap.
But Tony Lange did his best. Don’t forget Tony made a great save v Swansea in play-off semi final when we were down to nine men at The Hawthorns, performed well at Wembley v Port Vale and delivered a finger-tip save at Portsmouth the following year to keep us up in the last game of 1994.
Stuart Naylor was, as ever on the big occasions, nowhere to be seen. He gets my vote as our most over-rated goalkeeper. How did he last with us for ten years? His tenure matched our worst ever time in long the history of the club.
John Osborne the best I’ve seen here – and I go back to Jim Saunders.
Russell Hoult great for 18 months, too. Scott Carson certainly level pegging with Tony Godden, who was also petrified to leave his line. But Scott will get much better. Don’t give up on him.
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Father Ted
Friedel or your reserve keeper?
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Lol
I’ve never once booed Carson, mocked him or anything else for that matter and yet I’m labelled a hater.
I’ve been tyring to find a stat for how many shots each keeper faced in the season but have come up dry so far. However, Matt Gilks in goal for Blackpool conceeded more than Carson yet had a better saves to shots ratio…go figure.
Warren
I’ve mentioned the stats on Hannehman before and you can’t argue with them because in a struggling team he faced more crosses and shots on goal yet came out top STATISTICALLY. I’m putting it in capitals because that’s all they are, statistics.
Kev
Don’t throw your dummy out your pram pal, I’m only reitterating what Opta have put out there and considering most teams nowadays use Opta as their primary statistical tool I hardly think you can call it rubbish.
WBAForever
I hope you’re not including me in those who make ridiculous claims because if you are then I’d like you to point out which ones I’ve made? All I’ve ever done is promote FACTS based on Opta statistics.
Now I know how lonely feels!!!
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22 TRBH-
I have to say that,yet again I agree with you,Scott will never get any peace until he leaves us.
You may have noticed that when he’s played well,I’ve invited guys on here to give him praise,but it’s usually been met with a deafening silence.
And yet if there’s any glimmer of a mistake,he gets bombarded with criticism.
I’ve still got the Newcastle game on the recorder,so because of this article,I’ve played back the first two goals.
With the first,there are FIVE Albion outfield players standing around Steven Taylor,yet he’s allowed to stab the ball home(and Chris Brunt is the nearest to him,but doesn’t put in a challenge,are you listening Brunty?).
So does anyone want to blame Scott?
And with the second,Lovenkrands races into the area,unchallenged,then hits a high shot over Scotty,who does really well to instinctively throw his arm up,so that part of his hand manages to touch the ball.
If he was a couple of feet further back,the ball would have cleared the crossbar,going down as a good save,but instead,the deflection off the top of his hand caused the ball to loop under the bar,which was very unlucky.
Nevertheless,I’m sure a lot of people blamed him ANYWAY,regardless of the circumstances.
I didn’t bother going any further,because even if he’d made a string of outstanding saves,some would still have said afterwards ‘yeah,but he messed up the second goal’.
Just let him go,and if he DOES become a success elsewhere,how many will be willing to admit that they were wrong about his ability?
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Max
Allow me to explain.
I KNOW Carson has his falabilities, i am also aware that he has been directly responsible for a few goals.
My issue is the momumentally outragous claim that he costs us, to anything like the degree that his detractors try to convince us of.
It appears that any concession, he gets blamed for.
We have conceeded a staggering 70 odd goals, there HAS to be another element as to why.
I am not on the wrong horse, i just abhor the scapegoat mentallity.
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31 Forever.
Tread warily my friend, you are up against the greatest criminal mind the World has ever seen. If only we could persuade him to use it for the cause of good.
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33 farmer ted-
if I’m not mistaken,wolves conceded around 66 league goals last season,so instead of coming here to discuss our defender’s abilities,shouldn’t you be looking at the serious weaknesses of your own players?
After all,last week,you WERE just 3 minutes away from being a championship club,or have you forgotten already?
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33 Father Ted.
You’re probably right but he’s going to a top six club instead. Never mind it’s not as if we’re desperate having finished 11th. Just a bit of fine tuning necessary.
Hows the rebuilding going? (I don’t mean the ground.)
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Max
“Unless he improves beyond all recognition”
Some said the same about you son and look how many friends you’ve got now!
Adéu
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we lose at least 15 points or more per season down to carson,i cant remember him plucking the ball out the air, he’s too slow getting down to balls ( two against chelsea come to mind)and of course holding shots,he has this nack of palming balls to the opposition.
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Number 8. You obviously don’t watch a lot of football. I doubt their is a keeper who has gifted the opposition 10 goals at least last season.
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If were talking transfer wishes then I would go with Paul Robinson. Offer Blackburn £4m and we would have a good reliable proven keeper.
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34, Me.
Sorry cyril. That should ov read SANK.
Damn these sauasage fingers.
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Daft argument really. We, the amateurs, assess players and come to conclusions based on an occasional error by someone, occasional magical goals by someone, mouthing off once or twice and afraid to admit we got it wrong, prejudice on a scale that would preclude us from jury service for ever, yet the PROFESSIONALS keep picking Scott Carson for our team and our NATIONAL team. I wish I were half as clever as some of you ‘experts’. I am a fully paid up member of the Mutual Admiration Society, (MAS), because I read what the members say and admire their tolerance that no one is perfect. (Except me of course).
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Warren, in defence of Tony Lange, i thought he did ok here, not the best i’d readily admit but definitely not in the batch of our worst keepers. He deservedly kept Naylor out of the team at the time, and i remember being at Fratten Park on the last day of the season when he produced a wonder save to (along with Lee Ashcroft’s winner) keep us in the division. Imagine how different our recent history might have been had we been relegated back to the old 3rd division! Stuart Naylor was the Carson of the time as regards to being criticized, with Lange largely regarded as better all round keeper (crosses, coming off line etc…) but not as good as Naylor at shot stopping…not much changes does it?
;-)
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Hello Farmer Ted, how’s it going me old mucker? So what are you lot referring to Mick as this week Magic or Muppet?
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27, Happy I think you just hit the proverbial nail.
To be honest, we have all had a dig at Carson for his mistakes, I will be the first to admit that, but really, is there anyone better around at under 5 million ? maybe a few oldies but unless you want to spend a wedge on a keeper then Carson will be here for a few more years.
He isnt a bad keeper, he just makes more mistakes than most keepers do, most of them ones people will not drop.
Was Pascal Zuberbühler REALLY a goalkeeper ? lol, I thought we had hired a ball boy with gloves.
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I’m not the biggest of Carson fans but he’s our goalie until further notice and this thread only serves to dent his confidence further so how about we leave the guy alone a while for pity’s sake. We finished 11th not 17th on the last day !!
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What about Russell Hoult, surely he is the best keeper we have had in many a year?
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Someone mentioned Osbourne didn’t get In the England squad,but remember England had a lot of good keepers then, Shilton, Clemence, Corrigan.
One would hope that Carson would Improve with time, but we can’t afford the wait, another keeper who had a lot of critics at first was Tony Godden but he did learn very quickly to became a very good goalie.
I will obviously always support what ever team is put out,& go along with what Roy does, hes no fool & has seen enough,just like he has of Meite.
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He dropped the pen when i asked for an autograph
Enough said
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LMS (36)
No, my reference was to the “he costs us two goals a game brigade”
You are clearly an intelligent individual, so your “Only promote facts based on opta statistics” claim.
Do you HONESTLY believe it`s that Black & White ?
Statistics is a spurious tool that can fit any agenda.
It`s interesting that the keepers you mention, Carson, Gomez, Green and now Gilks, all play for teams with a more expansive style of play, so i would consider that to be a guideline.
There are things STATISTICALLY that cannot be argued.
Usain Bolt has covered 100 metres faster than anyone before. A man, a track, and a stopwatch.
Generaly statistics are infamously flawed.
Example.
The Glee Club version of Dont stop believin, is better that the original brilliant version by Journey, because it has had more air play and has sold more copies.
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Bets keeper was Russell Hoult by far, then good old Alan Miller. I still love good old Bruiser! Stuart Naylor couldn’t kick any better than Carson but had his heart in the club!
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55
Hence why I capitalised the word statistically – it’s only part of the picture. The expansive style of play argument is a good point but you have to remember that the stats show that Gomes saved a massive 20% more efforts on goal than our Scott. Until I can find one that shows how many efforts each keeper was on the receiving end of I’ll leave it up to everyone else what they want to make of that.
I’m not a Carson hater, in fact I cringe every time I hear people at the games barrack him. But I do think it’s time for a change. I’m hoping Dan can find a keeper who is more commanding by coming off his line and claiming the ball, is more vocal and can organise the back 4 because for me this is where Scott fails. I still think Sorensen would be a good shout but according to Warren he had one bad game at the WC so he must be ruled out.
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I am reminded of the statement by Mark Twain,
which he attributed to our Prime Minister, Benjamin Disraeli :
“There are lies, damn lies and statistics”.
I think that says it all gentlemen.
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53 Terry.
It was me that said about Ossie and I didn’t say it as a criticism but to illustrate my point that it’s easy to go over the top in hindsight.
I stood on the terraces throughout the time Ossie was our keeper and any younger readers can believe me when I say that on bad days he would get just as much criticism from the’experts’ that Scott does now. The only difference is that I don’t remember any fans back then booing their own players.
I think I can safely say that if the E&S had been running a forum like this that LMS and Max’s Grandads would have been launching their carrier pigeon with notes saying ‘Norman Heath would have saved that one.’
I repeat that Cyril, Forever, CR78 etc aren’t members of a supposed Scott Carson Fan Club, just people that try to give players a fair chance. I would do the same for any player that gives his level best for the club every week. If we bring in Joe Hart I’ll be the first to say great but I won’t get on his back when he makes the odd mistake either.
I think we should all take a leaf out of 51 Baggiescomeon’s book. Whatever we think of him while he’s our keeper give him some encouragement, who knows it might even help his confidence.
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57 LMS.
I think I should point out that statistically Warren has come up with a lot more reasons than the one you have mentioned.
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Goalkeeping has changed enormously over the years. If you go back to ‘Fatty Foulkes’, I found a simply marvellous bit of 1902 football on http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&v=7UkVZZnrC4E
you will see that although the SIZE of the goal has not changed, the size of the goalkeeper has. Foulkes was described as a ‘giant’ of a man. He was, round the waist!
Yet he was still spoken of as a good goalkeeper by my granddad. Back in 1946, League South, we played Villa at The Hawthorns and lost 5-1. My little brother was at his first Baggies match at 4 years old. He asked “Why does that little fat man keep diving on his belly”? I think he’d been brought out of retirement because our regular goalkeeper couldn’t get away on leave from the Forces. Then came Jimmy Sanders, (yes I have spelled it correctly). He had been shot to bits in a plane in the War, but they put all the pieces back in the right order and he was a fine goalkeeper. From Charlton I think.
People had their favourites then, but I cannot remember ever hearing booing of our own players. Just wasn’t cricket old chap!
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Is it safe to come out yet? there was that much Flak flying round yesterday, and I couldn’t find my tin lid!
Now I know what it must have been like being a wulfie all last season!
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LMS
I haven’t suggested we rule out Sorensen on the basis of one bad game.
What I said was yes, he had a shocker at the World Cup where he made more mistakes than Carson has in any one game, but also that he’s been dropped and sold by Villa and dropped by Stoke, he can’t be that good. Also, interestingly, in a recent poll of Villa fans on Friedel’s replacement, Carson received more votes than Sorensen (both ex-Villa) and many other keepers, including Kuszczak.
If we could sign Sorensen tomorrow and he’d improve us I’d say go for it, it’s not a pro-Carson or anti-Sorensen campaign, I’m just trying to be objective and I’m not convinced he’s an improvement on what we have.
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TRBH
Show me one post where I’ve outrageously criticised Carson or accussed him of being at fault for any particular goal without good reason? You won’t find one becuase I don’t knock him at every opportunity like some poeple, but hey, let’s forget that and class me as a hater because I don’t share the same views as you. It seems that if you don’t agree with certain memebers on here, or if you go slightly against their opinion then you’re in for it.
And (no offence to Warren) the only other reason eh came up with was that Villa didn’t want him to which I retorted Villa didn’t want Carson either.
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I see Big Sam has taken over at West Ham…. I bet the cock-er-nees are drooling at the thought of all that football – I hope the olympic staduim aint got a roof on it !!!
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Stoney Lane/BFTRBC
It was probably unfair of me to pick on Tony Lange, as you both rightly point out, he did pull off a couple of important saves at crucial times. I also remember him eyeing up anything in a skirt that walked around the back of his goal when he was fishing the balls out during the warm-up.
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CR78
You suggest a lot of people probably blamed Carson for Newcastle’s 2nd. They did, I spent about half hour arguing with two.
Like you say, it’s not about absolving Carson of any responsibility, it’s being fair. I personally thought Meite to a massive extent and in a smaller way Olsson were far more culpable for that goal than Carson. But again like you and TRBH say, until he leaves, he’ll probably never receive fair treatment. Makes you so proud of our support……
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I’m sure we could discuss this issue until we’re blue in the face,but it’s unlikely that many would change their opinion.
The only reason it’s dragging on is that not much else is happening,so we just have to agree to disagree.
Having watched Albion since I was a young lad in the mid-60′s,I can’t remember any ‘keeper that’s been outstanding,although some have been pretty decent.
Personally,I’m not a big fan of Scott,but I don’t dislike him either.I see him as having some good qualities,and some weaknesses,which puts him in the same category as the vast majority of goalkeepers in the game.
As I’ve said before,the very best ‘keepers will almost certainly be snapped up by the top clubs,and if any ‘slip through the net’ (excuse the pun),I’m sure RH and DA will be chasing them.
Until then,if Scott or any other player in the Albion squad gives his best effort,we just have to support and get behind them,because the negative stuff only ever produces negative,destructive results.
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55 wbaforever
That’s an excellent post.
However you wrongly suggest that the Glee Club version of Don’t Stop Believin was regarded as better than the original due to greater exposure, when in fact it was was because Scott Carson helped record the original……
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There appears to be some ground rules on this site having looked over some of the above posts. It would appear you are not allowed to raise concerns about any player who plays for the Albion , even if that player continually lets us down because then you cannot possibly be a Supporter.
It would also appear that even though you have watched Football for over 40 years you cannot possibly know anything about the game and we must always believe what the Professionals say because we have never played the game at the highest level .
Of course if you dare to break these rules you are chastised and told you are either ill educated or cruel and twisted .
Interesting to say the least a’int it.
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I see the pro / anti carson debate as being the same as the pro / anti JP debate…. when things are going well (we win a few games or we sign a 15 goal forward) we don’t hear from the anti brigade – yet let a goal in or fail to sign John Carew and the bloggs are full of posters suggesting we sell the club (never any suggestion as to who to) or get a new keeper who doesn’t make mistakes (again no suggestions)
When we went on our good runs last season there were little or no calls for Carson to be sacked – lose a game and out they come… a bit like the weathermen you get on those old barometer thingies – they only come out when its a bit gloomy too.
So I think we have just got to accept the mentality of highlighting the errors whilst ignoring the good – its the same on the darkside with the mick in/out brigade.
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70 wall heath – everyone is entitled to post their opinions- its comments like “continuosly let us down” which many of us are disagreeing with…. Carson makes some mistakes – its not continuos as you suggest as I don’t recall you posting this when we went 11 unbeaten or the many games when carson played well. I’m not trying to convince you – just making my point.
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It seems there are people on here that think it’s fine to attack players ability but when anyone challenges their view they become all precious and start shouting ‘foul, how dare you argue with my POV.’
It’s a debating site, if you can’t take people disagreeing with you perhaps you ought to take up a gentler pastime like crochet or collecting wildflowers. In the meantime I will carry on putting forwards my thoughts just as you do.
PS If you think it’s rough on here have a look on the dark side. You would have been called all the names under the sun and offered out a few times by now.
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Max
So would you say Carson is treatly fairly at matches and blame that’s apportioned to him is generally only for things he’s responsible for?
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I blame Chris Brunt. If he hadn’t had the audacity to say what a good keeper he thought Carson was we wouldn’t be having this row.
Although I suppose it’s really Scott Carson’s fault for existing. As JPS would have put it, ‘I keep therefore I’m wrong.’
PS.
Scott Carson was never a Villa player, he was on loan.
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70 Max-
it’s good to see you back on top form,firing on all cylinders,even though you’ll almost certainly get a massive backlash.
I can see Kev with his head in his hands,saying ‘max,max,MAX,tranquilloooooo!!!’.
I suppose I could wade in and throw a few verbal volleys,or come over and place my calming hand on your head again,but it’s more entertaining to watch from the sidelines.
We need a bit of excitement to break up ‘closed season boredom’so have yer rants……..
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Max,
Also….any suggestions on a Carson replacement??
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Solihull Baggie
“We lose at least 15 points a season due to Carson”….followed by “Chelsea at home springs to mind”.
That’s 1 if we’re being super-generous, Shorey faultless obviously. When were the other 14? Or are you going for the ‘Most irrational post on the thread’ award?
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I just think its brilliant that we finished 11th in the premier league whilst only playing with 10 men and no keeper every match – even Barca can’t do that
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73 TRBH
If that came across as precious then it was not my intention, i was merely making an observation on the posts on this thread , if you have another read over some of the comments you may see my point , there again ??
Know must be off to do me knitting and flower arranging.
72 HAPPY BAGGIE
The last time we crossed swords it did not end well , so all i will say is that i take your point about the 11 games , but it does not alter the fact that over last season Carson for me was found wanting as he was in the seasons before that.
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WARREN
The treatment Carson gets at matches is not good , for the record i do not boo him or join in the ironic cheers , but perhaps you should look at why supporters react in the way they do towards him , could it be that like myself they just do not rate him ???.
Alternative’s : Friedal , the pole in goal, Sorensen, Camp , Westwood , Lonergan , to name a few , of course picking players we will actually sign is a bit like getting the six numbers correct for the lottery.
CR 78
Feel free to have ago if you like , but having met you , i will find it impossible to get nasty with you. So perhaps Kev’s time has not been totally wasted after all.
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Max – I’m not crossing swords – I have no desire to force my opinions on you or for you to change your mind – I just disagree with you.
If I thought Carson was as poor as you suggest or if I could think of a better keeper we could a) afford and b) attract, then I would want to sign him…. and we may have one lined up – but I find the whole “he cost us 15 points” and “worst keeper in 40 years” posts to be total garbage.
IMO Carson is no worse that 50% of keepers in our division and better than around 25% – that leaves 25% better than him which for a club our size aint bad.
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HAPPY BAGGIE
I’m afraid the percentages you quote are way off what i would quote , i guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this particular subject .
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Max
Even though you do not mention whom, in your post (70) i assume given the words, ill educated, cruel etc you make reference to my post (31)
You tell me.
Is the suggestion that Carson costs us two goals a game, a valid and pertinent point ?
Is the suggestion that Carson has cost us 20 points this last season, a valid and pertinent point ?
By that reckoning, we have conceeded 71 goals from 38 games, therefore Carson is culpable for every single one of them.
The 20 points he has cost us would have seen us probably qualify for the Champions League.
Is any of the above tangible or ill educated ?
I will re-itterate, Carson is not without his flaws, but some of the claims levelled at him, are entirely disproportionate to reality.
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75
For the record Villa had the option to sign Carson and chose not to.
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Max.
Hold tight! I’ve book a flight for Tuesday, just keep doing the exercises we practised till I get there.
Adéu
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WBAFOREVER
Some supporters are merely stating their concerns about Carson , if you do not agree with them then fine , but to call people ill educated in my book is just plain wrong, football is a game of passions and even the most educated person can go off on one at sometime. Never said anything you regret ???.
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LMS
For the record Villa had the option to retain Sorensen and chose not to.
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wbaforever
I think anybody who disagrees with your last post is being completely irrational, very eloquently put.
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Anyway I’m now off to Madrid for a few days, so in the words of Kev ‘Tranquilloooo, adeu’.
England’s number one, England’s England’s number one……
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Warren
Must we resort to churlish replies? If you look, my resposne was to TRBH who stated that Carson was only on loan at Villa, implying that my statement below was incorrect.
‘And (no offence to Warren) the only other reason he came up with was that Villa didn’t want him to which I retorted Villa didn’t want Carson either.’
Your point at 88 is therefore redundant seeing as I had already mentioned it!
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80 Max.
When I wrote the post, yours at 70 hadn’t appeared so I wasn’t actually having a go at you although I can see your point that it would just about fall into the category. We disagree on almost everything but it’s not normally your way to cry about it so no hard feelings.
I’ve just got a bit fed up that when a few of us dare to come on here to defend our players we’re accused of being some Mafia-like organisation that represses anybody else having a point of view. Look at it from our end, isn’t it more like an organised little lynch mob ganging up on whoever is whatever the reverse of flavour of the month is?
Carson is victim of choice Numero Uno followed closely by JP. Meite, Morrison, and even Olsson have had some stick from the ‘Let’s Get on a Player’s Back’ club, if I’m allowed to call them that. At Stoke anyone with a milligram of football nous could see that it was Dorrans and not Carson that was at fault for there goal but we all love Dorrans so let’s see, who can we blame????????????? Answers on a postcars please.
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90 Warren-
have a good time mate.
While you’re there,try to have a word with that Casillas bloke,he might fancy moving to this part of the black country,and playing in the prem.That is,as long as-
1)He doesn’t mind putting up with noisy neighbours,smashing up their stadium,and howling day and night.
2)He meets with Max’s approval…….
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91 LMS.
I pointed it out because the implication seemed to be that Villa got rid of him. They didn’t, they chose not to pursue signing him, very different. This could be for any number of reasons that we don’t know about.
You came on originally condemning Carson because of a load of statistics. If you look at the match statistics on Sky they are often very different to the BBC’s. Statistics prove very little, which is what some of us were trying to say. You have now backpedalled on this which is to your great credit.
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Warren.
You lucky b****r, I’m spending the next few days in Winson Green.
Tranbloodyquillo.
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i prey this clown isnt in goal next season.too many individual mistakes…not good enough…hopefully bye bye scott.
here wolves looking for a new keeper
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(19,21)
Keeper,
You’re new.
Obviously you haven’t seen Kawashima play, have you?. Saw His performance against Peru this morning. Barks Directives to his team mates, never shuts up. Off his line and down amongst flying boots, brave as you like. In positions before you can say Karma Sutra. Kicking, not one was off the island all match.
Oozes confidence. Go get now.
I do Know what that squiggly bit on the end of your post means. you’ve answered your own question, as for my personal opinion, I would back Roy’s judgement, Whoever he decides to play. Hope you have been enlightened.
BOING~~~~BOING~~~~JtH.
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TRBH
I wasn’t ‘condemning’ Carson, merely aiming to throw some form of evidence into what is a heavily opinionated argument/debate. I’ve posted before that the lad has time on his side and will no doubt get better with age, but I feel IF we can get a better keeper now then we should do it rather than follow blind loyalty.
The point of using those stats is that they (Opta) are universally used amongst British teams as markers. However they can be determined how ever you like. For instance, Carson conceeded 14 goals from outside the penalty area last season (new record) according to Opta, is this due to the defence not closing the attacker down quick enough or is Carson susceptible to long range shots?
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95 TRBH-
I hope you’re not in secured accomodation in Winson Green at the request of your favourite person,Her Maj.?
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98 LMS.
I agree with you and Warren that if a better keeper is available and affordable then of course we’d all want him in. The same as every other position. The thing is and it’s been said many times already, who is this mythical goalkeeper?
We’ve had the usual mish mash of names thrown in, great keepers on their way down, possibles from the Championship and foreign keepers untried in this country. Whether any of these would be an improvement is highly questionable.
I would like to see us get in a promising foreigner to challenge him as being the best bet. Remember Kusczak was pretty in and out when he came, improved greatly but seems to have stood still at Utd. Westwood at Cov is a possibility but he’s not much younger than Carson and much less experienced.
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LMS
I’m not being churlish but you do have a habit of presenting Carson facts and statistics in a very anti-Carson way, and more credit to you for having the intelligence to do so. I’m just stating the opposite side of the argument you were presenting.
I appreciate you’ve put together a constructive and credible argument- something many Carson-knockers don’t- I disagree with you yes, but please don’t take it as a personal swipe or childish insult because that’s not how it was intended. I just don’t believe Thomas Sorensen is the answer to our problems.
TRBH- You and Max haven’t come to blows have you?? Cheers to you and CR78, see you next week!!
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99 CR78.
It’s worse than that, I work for her.
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This really is like one of the dingle pages. They squabble like this until they win the odd game and then they unite and bark on about how they are gonna destroy the Baggies and over take us at any moment.
I’m proud that we have an England squad player in our ranks and if we are looking for another keeper then it’s up to DA and RH who they choose recruit. I’m sure they will make the right decision.
I wonder if there’s a stat out there that compares the performance of a booed keeper against the performance of an appreciated keeper. We as fans are partly to blame for Scotts performances as we are for the performances of our more loved players (Odemwingie, Dorrans etc.). We got Peter cheap because Locomotiv didn’t appreciate him, I’m not sure we should be taking a leaf out of thier book.
I respect the feelings of LMS and WHB and we all see the mistakes when they are made but it’s the booing and jeering I can’t take. There’s no honour in booing your own. Thats what I thought seperated us from the Wolves and prawn sandwich brigade.
JtH, You’ve sold me on Kawashima, let me go and get me wallet.
Boing Boing
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