Albion can quickly turn things round
Tuesday 23rd November 2010, 9:10AM GMT.
Guest Albion blogger Pete ‘Hilltop Baggie’ Danckert believes the outlook is not so gloomy for the winter if the Baggies can quickly kick their slump into touch.
Good morning Baggies!
In Jarrod’s absence – Bomber will be back soon – I thought I would touch on our season so far which, although we are in a poor run of form at the moment, has still too be described as relatively successful.
Given our incredible start to the season, the last five games have been a complete mixture of emotions.
Blackpool away was a mammoth game which I think we came out of with a huge amount of pride.
Then came our first Sunday fixture against Manchester City. Unfortunately for us, the real City turned up, although I thought that for the first time this season we didn’t look up for the game.
West Ham and Stoke unfortunately fall into the hoodoo bracket. For some reason we have never won a Premier League game on a Monday night, and, well we just never beat Stoke.
Of all the games, Wigan away was the worst for me and had the feel of our ‘free away travel’ game at Barnsley. Loads of support for us, little for Wigan – and we fall flat on our faces.
Stoke is a mystery to me, they really didn’t trouble us, had one shot on target and beat us 3-0. Well them and the 12th man.
I don’t think the team could have been better prepared for the type of game that Stoke bring – I didn’t recognise it as football – but maybe we were so pre-occupied with their game we forgot to play our own.
So, where does that leave us? With 14 games gone, 16 points is not to be sneered at and, whilst we are only two points away from the drop zone, we are also only three points from seventh.
And no I’m not going to say we will finish seventh, but for me what it does illustrate is that this season’s Premier League is tighter and more unpredictable than ever.
Look at last weekend’s games, Arsenal leading Spurs 2-0 and then getting overturned by the end of the game.
Chelsea losing two games on the bounce and, with respect, not to the big teams in Sunderland and Birmingham.
I am not sure how this pans out for the rest of the season, does it mean that the usual safety line of 40 points isn’t going to be just that, safe, or could it mean that 33 to 34 points will be enough to secure safety?
Whatever the outcome, I believe that we are realistically capable of reaching 20 to 22 points by the New Year, so that’s four to six points from our next six games.
Conservative I know by my standards, but realistic. That would still keep us on course for a point a game and, come the end of the season, my opinion is that will be enough to see us playing at this level again next year.
Keep the faith, there’s a lot to play for yet.
UK Sport
Latest Blog — A week is a long time in football
This time last week we were staring down the barrel, third from bottom with a worse record than at the same stage last year, writes Saddlers blogger Mark Jones.
Saddlers Blog
Business Awards
Book a Business Awards table
Join our celebrations of the region's best in business on Thursday March 22 - book your table now
Lifestyle
Interactive Dining Out map
Hundreds of reviews by the Express & Star and Shropshire Star's teams to help you decide where to eat.
entertainment
All the film reviews
Before you plan a trip to the pictures, get our critics' verdicts on all the latest movie releases
OUR NEW APP
Get the new E&S app
Download the Express & Star’s new app to your iPad or iPhone to get one week of access to our digital newspapers absolutely FREE.
expressandstar.com
Popular sections
Useful links
Pete- Excellent and realistic article.
We have games against Everton, Newcastle, Villa and Wolves and even just a 4-point yield gets us to Christmas on 20 points, how many of us would’ve taken that when the fixtures came out?
Unless Wolves or West Ham go on a big run in their next 4 games, then 40 points will be a big ask for both.
This is our first midweek off for a month if you take internationals into account. I don’t think it’s any coincidence that we’ve struggled through it (especially after the energy expended at Blackpool). The results at The Emirates and Old Trafford were down to being high-energy, up-tempo and pressing high up the pitch. The last few weeks have been anything but. With a couple of days to recouperate this week, hopefully we’ll see a return to something like those earlier performances.
We’re actually doing okay, this isn’t a time for the blame game, it’s a time for getting behind the team and making sure we get something from our next 4 games.
Report abuse
2 Beevower.
Where was the booing? I was in the BRE and I didn’t hear any at all.
Report abuse
2 beevower
I usually tend to agree with a lot of your post’s, but i have to bring issue with you over booing, during the Game i agree that it should not happen, but at the end of the game if you feel you have been short changed i think you have the right to show your displeasure, particularly with what you have to pay to watch it.
I personally did not hear any booing as i was well on the way to the station when the final whistle went,along with many others i may add.
Report abuse
On the subject of booing, what do we think deserves a good booing at the full-time whistle? Simply losing?
I’ve seen no problems under this regime with effort and willingness to play for the shirt. If they have a go, what more can we ask? Perhaps this is a day and age where anything but a free-flowing comfortable victory deserves praise…….
Report abuse
*only a free-flowing comfortable victory
Report abuse
I’m sorry to say we do have an inflated opinion on our team, we are still a poor side and 17th will still be a major achievement. The start we have had this season with a little help from the promotion euphoria has given a fighting chance to stay up, we just need to somehow find a way to sneak a couple of victorys. I said from the start the relegation teams will be Blackpool plus 2 teams starting with W, and i havent changed my mind. Lets hope RDM can find the correct blend to stop the run we are on and restore some confidence. And fingers crossed Jonas is back soon he is badly missed….
Report abuse
hi Pete,everton a tough game on saturday be happy and grateful with a point,but newcastle and dingles at home vile away cant see to many problems there so i think we will be tucking into our turkey on christmas day with 22/23 points on the board,aye boing boing
Report abuse
talking of turkeys wots the topic on the staffordshire page,aye boing boing
Report abuse
beevower.
Surely anyone booing woulkd be directing it at the halfwit Referee and his halfwit assistants. I’m sure most of us went to the game hoping for a miracle but deep down knowing that it would be unlikely for us to get more than a point.
Why on earth bring in TLJC as some sort of reference. Offensive to some!!
Report abuse
Hi Pete and many thanks for doing the blog mate, excellent work.
Saturdays game highlighted two things to me. Firstly in the Premier League as in all leagues the world over it matters not how well you play it is what you do in each box that matters most. We were the better team all over the pitch except in the two areas that count. I accept that we could not do much about the two penalties (on another day neither would have been given) but the lack of ideas about breaqking down Stokes resilient defence worried me. We got a number of crosses into their box, however unlike at the start of the season there was a lack of midfielders committing to get forward when attacking.
Secondly, is it me or is the standard of refereeing worse now than at any other time?
I accept that they are now under the spotlight more than ever, but i have seen more gaffs this season than ever before. Like Saturday tight games seem to be decided via the man in the middle and surely that is wrong. You know when a referee has had a good game, you dont notice them and nobody knows who it was.
If things do even themselves up across the course of the season i look forward to seeing it!!!
Report abuse
Blimey East Stand Baggie makes me sound like an optimist!!!!!
I thought we were very poor at Wigan but on Saturday I can’t believe we lost let alone 3-0. I thought we played pretty well but as is always the case with Stoke nothing went our way. I think our luck will turn again and agree the booing is ridiculous. One change I would make is to play Morrison wide as I don’t think he is strong enough to play in the middle. Keep the faith we will be OK
Report abuse
3. The Real Bully Hoo – the booing was from the back of the BRE although as usual only a minority – it was the same against Man City at both half time and full time.
4. WHB – I agree that people pay huge amounts of money to attend matches these days and therefore have the right to voice that frustration/ displeasure if they so wish – I have done on a few occasions over the years I’ve been following the Albion – I just didn’t believe that the performance or our current situation within the table warranted the booing. However – as you say maybe it was more towards the Referee?
10. Jeff – certainly no offence meant by my comment re TLJC – just a way of emphasising how big those games in December are for the Albion. Apologies to all for whom it’s caused offence
Report abuse
Reality check has arrived to the many who got carried away on these pages claiming we would be comfortbly in the top half come next May and a few even suggesting Europe !!!
That was totally unfair on the team, the Manager and Jeremy(yes Bully Hoo that is not a misprint).Boring statement I know but 17th place would be a fantastic achievement on the way our club is set up.Our club is famous and has an history and tradition of being great cup fighters and we have one almighty opportunity of making the semis in the league cup and a potential two leg semi versus Villa or Blues under the floodlights which generates electric atmospheres and memories of those cup games of the sixties and seventies.Lets not screw up againsts Ipswich !!!!
Report abuse
7. after say i completely disagree with that comment that we have an inflated opinion of our team and that we are a poor side.
Not many poor sides win away at arsenal, let alone scoring 3 in the process. From witnessing every home game and 3 away first hand i would say on our day we have looked a very tidy side.
I think most of us accept that the performances in the last couple of weeks have been a bit below par, but all of us would agree that we are still in a very positive position going into the festive period.
Realistically by xmas day we could have 20 plus points and booked a league cup semi- final place. Not to mention the all important local bragging rights. SO LET THE BELLS RING OUT FOR XMAS DAY!!!
BOING BOING
Report abuse
Beevower.
I heard the booing of the referee when he came off but I didn’t think you meant that as the players had gone down the tunnel by then. I sit more than halfway up the BRE in the middle and I can honestly say I heard no booing from our stand. Like I say, most of it seemed to be from the Halfords Lane as the (inept/bent moron) sorry that was a misprint please ignore it, should read referee approached.
Report abuse
5 Warren.
I wish I’d written that, spot on. Too many seem to be like the tabloid press. Go over the top when we do well so that they can jump all over them when we don’t.
14 Streetly.
We’ve had our differences but like Warren you’ve hit the nail on the head.
Report abuse
Pete.
Apologies for not commenting straight away on your excellent blog. I was a bit sidetracked first by another post and it was only when I read Bomber’s post that I realised he hadn’t written it (Especially as you say so at the beginning and I don’t know how I could have mistaken your half full stein for Jarrod’s half empty shot glass anyway but I did.)
You’re right, when we were doing well it was easy to get carried away and after a few bad results it’s just as easy to believe we won’t win another game. The truth is somewhere in between. The return of Brunt, Shorey and Olsson will make a massive difference, as will the return to form of Dorrans which I’m sure is not far away. Tchoyi looks to have immense potential and I look forward to him starting a few games.
I agree with Bomber’s post on the refereeing, I think I said so in a post yesterday. Our friend Mr Oliver had another match changing red card rescinded this week in the Championship and I wonder if any action will be taken, perhaps sending him back to referee school.
I’m not just complaining about our games because it’s possible to see literally dozens of poor decisions every week and not just the borderline ones picked up by slowmo, many of them are glaring where the referee is perfectly placed.
I also think that Tony Pulis’ tactic of going public works. Going back to the 70′s and 80′s Cloughie’s Forest team got loads of bad decisions because he wouldn’t allow his players to question the ref, Liverpool and Leeds got loads of dodgy ones by ganging up and browbeating the officials. Something that obviously wasn’t lost on Ferguson. I hope to see RDM harangueing the officials in future when we get any stinkers.
Report abuse
I think that the booing was aimed at the referee in the main. I sit in the Halfords Lane Stand and most of the booing was aimed at the that muppet when he left the field.
Was it me or did Jones go down like Christopher Dean at the end of Bolero?
Report abuse
12 Wakey.
Mike Tyson probably wouldn’t be strong enough to play in the middle against that mob.
Report abuse
19 Wondering.
I thought it was a toss up between him and Whitehead for the part of Jayne Torvill.
Report abuse
I don’t think there is any need to be reaching for a panic button – like most posters on here i am mystified as to how we lost the game on saturday – let alone 3.0 – but it happens and its how we bounce back.
When the big teams lose a game they are a “wounded animal” and whoever they play next had better look out… we need to have this mentality and take our frustrations out on everton.
If we can get Brunt back ASAP he will make a huge difference – I think Tamas & Pablo are making it very hard for Jonas to get back in when he is fit – and i thought Cech did pretty well too – although i think Shorey is better.
19 – i thought Jones went down like gillian Mckeith on a bushtuker challenge…..
Report abuse
I heard a bit of booing which I thought was directed at the referee. We have gone off the boil but I thnk we’ve got enough in the team to pick up plenty of points. This team will surprise again when not expected as it has already this seasion. The league definitely looks stronger than last season and it looks like its going to need closer to 40 points to stop up. If West Ham and Wolves don’t start going on a run soon they could be gone but I’m wondering who the other club is going to be. The Wigan and Blackool losses could be costly!
Report abuse
I was in BRE and there was defiantly booing, but I think as others have pointed out it was intended for Stokes 12th man.
Im still optimistic, and shoot me if you want, I do not believe, especially with this being the most open of all Premierships, that Europe is out of the question.
Why?
1)Sacred cows are being sacrificed left right and centre, Arsenal losing three times at home, already!, Chelsea losing three of their last four, etc etc, this season is definitely heading into uncharted waters.
2) We are two games (or 6 points) of a current European spot.
3) Of the current top 7 teams, we have played all 7, and took NINE points from them.
4) We have played the “big four” (if we are still counting Liverpool as one) away already.
5) We have already shown we can compete on our day with anyone.
6) The matches we have lost could have gone either way, Wigan, didnt exactly play us off the park, Blackpool and Stoke, different day, a different ref, we deserved to pick up at least a point, in each, if not all three in all three games, and as for Stoke, still dont know what happened, even though we were not at our best, we were still the better team by far.
7) Man City, well the Man City that played us, will trouble ANY team, and if they had played that team in all matches would be higher than they are now.
8)Given that we are still not playing the team that we did prior to Blackpool debacle, due to suspensions and injuries, who’s to say when we do, we cant pick up where we left of???
So, although 17th would be more than satisfactory, lets believe a little, and keep the faith.
in our RDM we trust.
Report abuse
22 Happy.
Wish I’d thought of that.
Report abuse
I also can confirm there was booing in the BRE, as i was one of them booing….aimed squarely at the idiot masquerading as a referee (timed to coincide with his approach to the dressing room) i reserve my right to let these muppets know what i think of their performances!
On the final whistle, there was no booing whatsoever – like all good comedians would say its all about timing, right Mr Foy?
Report abuse
Warren No1
I think you are right the team seem to struggle with two games in a week or when players are away on international duty and have to play after traveling. RDM has already alluded to the fact that we will need all of our squad over the November to early January period injuries and suspensions have prevented him using the squad to it’s best advantage and some players maybe haven’t been rested when they needed one.
With regard to the booing which was very limited I think expectation levels have risen and perhaps this is disappointment coming to the surface. In fact I heard some Arsenal fans calling for the head of Arsene Wenger on Talk Sport on my way to work today and remember the abuse Steve Bruce got after their Newcastle defeat although they have now lost one in eight games. It seems that fans are becoming as impatient as some chairmen and have short memories. If Wenger can be criticized after what he has achieved the game is in a sorry state. Thankfully RDM appears to let the criticism and adulation wash over him which is probably why he is so good at what he does.
Report abuse
Bully 18
You are of course right, referee baiting is certainly not a new phenonomon. As you say the 70`s Leeds team, and in truth they were probably the benchmark of what we see all too frequently today.
The one that sticks out for me however, is our FA cup semi final versus Ipswich at Highbury.
The much loved and revered Bobby Robson complained bitterly about……i think (if memory serves me well) Clive Thomas officiating the game, the FA as was their wont, gave Bobby short shrift, and Thomas ? went on the ref the game.
As history tells us Ipswich won 3-1, and in truth completly and utterly outplayed us on the day, but i cannot help thinking that if the game had been an even contest that somehow Ipswich would have prevailed by virtue of a dodgy decision.
Report abuse
Warren, please please please stop going on about the blackpool game, about how much energy was used and the poor lads must be drained, they are pro athletes man,90 mins of hardwork never killed anybody m8,ok tired after 24 hrs and thats pushin it, a complete recovery in 36 hrs, so 5 games later theyre still suffering,???????????
Report abuse
I think if anyone thought we would’nt be fighting relegation at some point this season then they had their eyes closed. As it stands we are in a much better situation than we ever have been in, so like I have always maintained get to 25 points by jan 1st and thats a good platform for safety.
Off the back of a predictable defeat by Stoke Everton could bring a point for us as we have an ok record against them.
I’m confident!
Report abuse
Sid,
I take your point and I may be wrong, but if you compare the levels of performance before and afterwards, then something changed that day. RDM and his coaching staff have implied as much. I’m not saying they’re shattered and can’t run, but we’ve afforded teams too much time and space in the games since, something a team of our standard can’t get away with in this league.
Yes they’re professional athletes and I don’t doubt that they could run all day every day if need be, but I’m talking about their energy levels in comparison to the the 11 professional athletes on the opposite side, not the average man on the street.
Report abuse
28 Forever.
I’m sure you’re right. I don’t know if you listen to Alan Brazil on Talksport but he often mentions that Bobby Robson would tell his players how to approach a particular referee or to congratulate a linesman on a good decision. In other words to condition them.
Ferguson is much less subtle, more like Revie but if anything their method is even more successful. This is borne out by Rob Stiles performance when we played Man Ure. Without doubt the most disgustingly one-sided piece of officiating it’s been my misfortune to witness.
PS I see Mr Wenger is fuming about bad decisions last night.Welcome to our world Arsene
Report abuse
30 AIK.
Not sure about the second part of your post. I think if we get a point at Everton it will be a major achievement and I hope our fans don’t do a mass Corporal Jones impersonation if we lose.
Totally agree about the first part. I think if anyone had offered us our current position at the start of the season we’d have taken their hand off, especially after the Chelsea game.
I noticed the other day RDM said he was a bit down about recent results. I think this is him playing down expectations. I’m not one for predicting results but I think we should accumulate at least six points by the New Year giving us 22 points and an excellent chance of surviving.
Report abuse
This is by far the best fist we have made of premier league football so far. One point I would make in addition to many fine ones already posted is that Olsson has been a huge loss. He brings a bit more stability and leadership to the back four. He’s a leader and an organiser – and I think the back four have stuggled a bit without his presence in the team. I think if he can play from when he comes back until May then we will have collected enough points to achieve our objective.
As for Everton I think this is a game that Dorrans can enjoy and do well in. I’d also like to see Tchoyi involved if Morrison and Brunt don’t make it.
Report abuse
Also for debate – is there any chance DiMatteo would or should bring Ray Wilkins in to enhance his backroom team – or would that be too many cooks?
Report abuse
34 AMS
Interesting thought , i have often wondered if Gianfranco Zola would get involved at the Club, bearing in mind he and RDM are big buddies. Most Prem clubs appear to have massive back up staff , both Wilkins and Zola have huge experience at the top level which i would think would be invaluable.
Report abuse
AMS/Wall Heath
Interesting suggestions but I think it’d probably be an issue with Eddie Newton and Michael Appleton whose roles will probably be mapped out for them. What could a new coach bring that we haven’t got without infringing on the roles of those two? Some might say, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it.
Also, I think it’s worth mentioning that whilst Wilkins enjoyed reasonable success at Chelsea (it’d surely be hard not to?), he previously worked under Vialli under Watford when they nearly got relegated from the Championship and plunged the club into huge debt. In that sense, is his or Zola’s track record as a coach any better than Eddie Newton’s or Michael Appleton’s?
Report abuse
WARREN
With due respect to Newton and Appleton , Zola and Wilkins played at a lot higher level than them. I was not suggesting that either should lose their job , at Spurs Harry has Bond and Jordan as well as Ferdinand and Sherwood in advisory roles. Going further back Shankly used to have the famous boot room staff who’s advice he used to seek , of course ultimatly the final decisions should always be made by the Headcoach/Manager, just think that input from such experienced Football people may be of help to RDM. I think AMS and myself were just thinking aloud really , doubt if anything will happen on this front.
Report abuse
Hola Amogo’s
The wife’s got a day off today and we’ve just enjoyed a very nice lunch or should I say dinner,cooked by myself.
It’s funny how my mind is a little more furtive after a bottle of vino tinto,but that’s enough about my day.
I’m a little dismayed a this talk about changing the present coaching staff,who up to the Blackpool game were the best thing since sliced bread.
You may say it’s just a discussion, but from little acorns.You’ll be taking your boots off and running down the b’ham rd next.
TRANQUILO LADS HIC!
Adeu
Report abuse
I dont know if it’s my mogo or my migo
Report abuse
Hilltop,
With Newcastle, Blackpool and us promoted, I agree the Premiership is tighter and more unpredictable this season. Lets have a player on the pitch with a big mouth while Jonas is unavailable, step forward Mr.Read, I’m sure you could be the one, coupled with your experience. It’s not beyond us at Goodison Park.
BOING~~~~BOING~~~~JtH.
Report abuse
KEV IN MALLORCA
Your starting to make Sir Terry sound intelligent. Keep off the vino if i were you. The taking your boots comment went way over my head.
Report abuse
Wall Heath
You’re providing examples from a wider spectrum than I’d allowed myself, as I couldn’t get past Mowbray and Venus…….and then Grant turning up!!!
I always get the impression (this could be way off the mark) that once a coach has coached for a length of time and received all of their coaching badges, that there’s not much one could teach that another couldn’t with respect to team shape, organisation, discipline, off the ball movement etc, and it then comes down to the indivdual’s work-ethic and affinity with a set group of players/fellow management team as to how effectively they get those ideas across.
It seems to me that RDM, Newton and Mafe started at the bottom together, developed their ideas together and have a deep understanding of each other’s needs and roles. From what we’ve seen so far, it works. I’d be cautious about changing the dynamics of that. However as you say, only they know what’s best and I doubt we’ll see a change unless they see fit.
Report abuse
Wall Heath
It’s what the Italian’s were famous for when they were loosing the battle.
At least I’m not famous for being constantly negative.
Hic! Adeu
Report abuse
I wasn’t suggesting that any of the current coaching staff are inadequate or should go. Just thinking aloud as per WHB – worthwhile debate since he is almost a free agent. I think Wilkins may enhance the team and it’s not that the coaches ‘have something they haven’t learned elsewhere’, but more that an additional pair of eyes and a different communication style may help some of the players to improve their games and perceptions. If anyone at the club thinks that adding another member to the coaching staff would cause problems then I’d definitely leave it alone. As I said initially – it could be a case of too many cooks if they can’t agree on things.
I too was worried when Grant arrived not least because if he hadn’t left with Mowbray I thought Peace may have lined him up to succeed him. Ask Norwich or West Ham fans about his roles in charge of their clubs. Thankfully this never came to fruition.
Report abuse
FIRST OF ALL THE NICE SIDE OF FOOTBALL IS
STILL OUT THERE MY THANKS TO JOE HART MANCITY KEEPER WHO VERY KINDLEY GAVE ME HIS SHIRT AT THE END OF THE GAME….NOW TO the albions slight blip now we aint gonna win em all guys but we wont loose to many either a slump was going to come thats foot ball it happens but the diference is we got a squad that is good enuf to get out of this im not panicking nor worrying RDM is more than caperble to sort it out if what we have achived so far is the future of westbrom then its gonna be one hell of a future,keep thease dreames alive and RDMS mentality and we can show the world you can win things with a team with one thing in mind a chance to shine and prove you dont need million pound players when you can build a squad who have a gift that is priceless passion commitment and togetheness we have done this so far this season and we will carry on THE FUTURES BRIGHT ITS ALL BLUE AND WHITE ITS THE BAGGIES
Report abuse