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The Big Interview: Pele

It was only those involved with European football that ever really regretted they never saw Pele play for a club on this continent.

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The legend of the Brazilian football icon was born 60 years ago when he made his debut for boyhood side Santos aged just 15,

writes Craig Birch.

His senior bow came on 7 September 1956, finding the net in an emphatic 7-1 drubbing of Corinthians. From there, the floodgates opened. He'd only signed professional forms that June.

It's fitting that the superstar striker's introduction into the first-team would come on his country's Independence Day. He would never let other opinions sway where his heart lied.

A year later, Pele made his full debut for Brazil, scoring on his debut against Argentina at the Maracena while 16 years and nine months old, becoming the youngest to score in an international.

There's seemed absolutely no way of stopping his breakthrough, as he won his first league title with Santos and lifted the 1958 World Cup with Brazil.

He netted six times in Sweden, including two against the hosts while becoming the youngest to play in the final, at 17 years and 249 days.

By the next World Cup, Pele was absolutely on fire with Santos romping to a domestic debut and winning the Copa Libertadores, the most prestigious club tournament in the Western hemisphere.

More would have surely followed at Chile 1962 had he not aggravated a groin problem in the second group clash against Czechoslovakia, after scoring twice in the first game against Mexico.

Garrincha instead inspired Brazil to a second successive World Cup, with Pele missing the rest of the tournament through injury.

It didn't matter to his suitors, though, who had already took notice of the Copa Libertadores. That interested would only heighten when he was fit again.

His performance for Santos against European champions Benfica over a two-legged Intercontinental Cup tie that September sent them into hyperbole.

First he struck twice in the home game, before plundering a hat-trick in Lisbon as Santos, already known to be one of the best club teams in the world, thrashed Benfica 8-4 on aggregate.

Real Madrid, Barcelona, Juventus and even Manchester United all tried to entice him away by the end of that year, which could have easily turned Pele's head.

Madrid even thought they had got their man, at one stage, only for the Brazilian government to declare him a 'national treasure' so he couldn't be transferred out of the country.

In the end, Pele would stay with Santos right up for all but the last two seasons of his career and would never grace the European Cup.

The 75-year-old freely admits his favourite two players of today are Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo, both of whom have played little or no club football in their homelands.

Messi has four Champions League winners medals, while Ronaldo has two. For once, Pele has none in comparison. Does he wish that had been different? Not at all.

He said: "I think I did a lot of the things that I wanted to do. I was 15 when the manager asked me to play for Santos as a professional.

"At 17, I was in the national team. All of that was a surprise to me. Only god can explain this. It was like a dream.

"I had started to have proposals to come to Europe, to be honest, since my first World Cup but it was so nice being with Santos.

"I have spent nearly all of my life in Santos. For the most of the time I was playing, I would only leave there it was for a football match.

"I never really wanted to move, but I was very close to going to Madrid. In the end, I changed my mind. I always preferred to play in Brazil.

"I remember the chairman at Juventus was also the owner of Fiat and he told me, if I signed for them, I would also get a part of his company. I didn't really understand what I would do with it!

"Even the president of Santos wanted to sell me, I knew that when he told me to think about my future. But I was very happy there, it was always where I wanted to be.

"In my mind, with the team Santos had at the time and Brazil, I was playing for the two best teams in the world. I never had any reason to move."

Pele has long appreciated Europe's top talents and those playing their trade there, from afar, and continues to do so.

Internationals and coming out of semi-retirement for the last two years of his career, to play in the North American Soccer League for New York Cosmos, meant he still rubbed shoulders with them.

He appreciated the talents of England legends Bobby Charlton and Bobby Moore, playing alongside the latter in the USA, as he did with Johan Cruyff and Franz Beckenbauer.

He considers George Best to be the most Brazilian-type talent that wasn't from his homeland, while he was also a fan of French favourite Zinedine Zidane.

He rates Messi as the best performer of the modern-day, with Ronaldo a close second. He considers the two worlds apart from the rest.

He said: "Over my career, I played against every type of defender you could think of, good and bad. There wasn't many who wouldn't kick you!

"Bobby Moore was one of the few who never played dirty, he was one of the best. He was clean and a good player.

"Some years ago, in my time, in each national team you would have two or three excellent players. For instance, England had Bobby Moore and Bobby Charlton.

"George Best, to me, was at a level that could compete with anyone. At that time, we used to compare him with Garrincha. They had almost the same style.

"Later in my career, there were talents like Johan Cruyff and Franz Beckenbauer. You don't see that many players like that now.

"It would be difficult to find five players today who are at the same level as they are. The main ones I have noticed is Zinedine Zidane, but he's now retired, Messi and Ronaldo.

"Ronaldo is the goalscorer, while Messi is the more complex one. Over the last few years, the best player for me has been Messi.

"A lot of people ask me which one I would rather select, but they are different players. Messi can score a goal, but is more prepared for the other aspects of the game.

"Ronaldo is more forward and is perhaps more of a threat in attack, but they are both fantastic. I'd like them both in my team!"

Pele's experience of football in England proved fleeting, with Brazil surprisingly going out of the home nation's triumphant 1966 World Cup after the group stages.

He was kicked all over the park in games against Bulgaria and Portugal, missing the match with Hungary in-between as a result. All three took place at Goodison Park.

He was so furious at his treatment he vowed never to play in another World Cup, after a strike against Bulgaria had made him the first to score in three successive tournaments.

Only the fixtures in England's group and some of the knockout places took place at Wembley Stadium, where Pele has never featured competitively.

He recalls: "I've been out on the turf, as we trained there, but I never played properly on it. It was not my decision where we had our games and we didn't do very well."

Pele's international exile lasted until 1969 and he would score his 1,000th goal in senior football for Santos that November.

It came in nerve-wracking circumstances, when he was handed the opportunity of a spot kick in front of 80,000 fans at the Maracena against Vasco da Gama.

He composed himself to find the net to reach the milestone and his government issued a commemorative stamp to mark his achievement.

He said: "Everybody thinks that getting a goal through a penalty is easy. When I scored my 1,000th it was a penalty. It was the toughest moment of my life.

"For the first time in my life, I was afraid to kick the ball. I started to shake and I was thinking like 'I cannot miss this.'

"I put the ball down on the mark, I looked around and all of the Santos team had their hands in the air. The goalkeeper came very close to touching the ball, too. I found that so difficult."

His decision to turn out for Brazil also paid dividends at the 1970 World Cup, would prove to be his last and certainly his best.

The swashbuckling team he spearheaded were arguably the best attacking side to ever win the competition and he reaped the rewards.

He received the Golden Ball as the Player of the Tournament as he wound up his international career, which ended the following July, on a high. He won 91 caps all in all, scoring 77 times.

He said: "The journalists today think they know, more than ever, about football and a lot of them in Brazil started to criticise the national team, just as we were preparing for that World Cup.

"Our coach selected five forwards and only Jairzinho was a proper No 7, the rest of us were used to playing at No 10.

"A lot of people thought it was crazy and that it wasn't going to work. All we heard was what a disaster it was going to be.

"When we got there, we proved we were the best time Brazil had until now. Sometimes the journalists make mistakes."

In international retirement, Pele focussed on club football in his thirties with Santos, who were going all over the world to play tour games.

At 31-years-old, he would come back to England to play for his team at Aston Villa, an evening he freely admits he can't remember.

The claret and blues, then of the Third Division, kept him off the score-sheet but the sight of Pele gracing the turf at Villa Park on 21 February 1972 was one to behold.

He said: "Today is different, there are more companies who want to invest in football. Santos would travel away twice a year to make money for the players. That was the reason why we had to go."

Pele lasted another two years with Santos before retiring from regular Brazilian football after his 19th season, although he continued to make occasional appearances.

Two years after that, he finally left his country to join up with Cosmos for a couple of seasons. On 1 October 1977, some 22 days shy of his 37th birthday, he hung up his boots for good.

According to the International Federation of Football History & Statistics (IFFHS), his haul of 541 league goals has never been surpassed.

Taking into account friendlies and tour games, his overall tally was 1,281 goals from 1,363 games. During his playing days, he was the highest-paid athlete in the world.

He remains the game's icon, a Godfather-type figure who is loved by all. He's a hero to millions, but another man is his own idol.

The man born Edson Arantes do Nascimento believes football was always in his blood thanks to his father, Joao Ramos do Nascimento.

Dad, too, had a football alias of Dondinho and played professionally as a striker in Brazil, but injury hampered a promising career. He died in 1996. Mum Dona Celeste, now 92, is still alive.

The impetus for Pele to lead his country to great glories actually came from one of their darkest hours, too, namely a young boy's memories of Brazil losing a home World Cup final to Uruguay.

Pele said: "When I won my first World Cup, all I wanted to do was see my father. Obviously, communications were not like they are today. It took me three hours to find my parents.

"My father was a professional player and, a lot of people don't know this, the record for goals by head in Brazil belong to him. I scored a lot of goals, but he got the most headers!

"He was a big name himself but was exactly like an English centre-forward, like a No 9. He had a bad problem, with his ligament, so he couldn't play anymore.

"I had promised, as a nine-year-old, that I would win the World Cup for him. The 1950 final was something I don't want to remember, but I do.

"My father asked a lot of the players to come round, have a lunch and watch the game. We didn't have a TV, so they listened to it on the radio.

"I was outside playing with the other boys on the street and, in the early part of the game, we heard the noise in the beginning.

"When Brazil lost the game, I came in and saw my father and his friends. They were very sad and my dad was crying.

"My father always told me that 'men don't cry' and it was terrible. I told him not to worry, because I was going to win the World Cup for him. In the end, I won three."

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