Time to map out a plan for Villa's future
- Says blogger Matthew Turvey
Wolves reveal Gardner deal breaker
Friday 1st July 2011, 11:30AM BST.
Wolves’ chances of signing Craig Gardner collapsed over personal terms, it has emerged.
It is understood Wolves matched the £4.5million fee Sunderland have paid Birmingham for the sharp-shooting midfielder, who was due to be unveiled as the Black Cats’ latest signing today.
Gardner was then left with a dilemma over which club to choose. The former England under-21 international, whose £25,000-a-week wages were going to remain the same in the Championship, is believed to have favoured Wolves.
But Sunderland were able to trump them on the wages they could offer, leaving manager Mick McCarthy to look elsewhere and Gardner to sign a three-year deal at the Stadium of Light.
It is the second time McCarthy has been outbid on Gardner, having also missed out when he left Villa for £3million in January 2010.
With McCarthy also missing out on Gardner’s Blues’ team-mates Sebastian Larsson – who was also due to be unveiled by Sunderland today – and Roger Johnson, the Wolves boss is having to think again on his transfer wishlist.
It’s a familiar story for McCarthy, especially regarding dealings with Blues, who have generally paid bigger wages since both clubs were promoted in 2009.
Wolves refused to pay £5million for Johnson two years ago when he went to Blues from Cardiff – now Birmingham want £10million for the 28-year-old.
And they were all set to sign his defensive partner Scott Dann, only for Blues to offer him an extra £6,000-a-week at St Andrew’s.
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If Gardner prefered to come to us, then he has gone to Sunderland purely for money i’d rather not have him
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I think its time to raise the bar on the wages limit. If we are going to push on in this league then we need better players and to get them we need to offer more wages. I’m not saying break the bank but this will keep happening as long as we keep offering lower wages than other clubs. If two clubs offered you contracts and one was 6k more a week I know who I would choose.
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Well said Davey
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Spot on daveywolf, but wolves have got to stop being penny-pinchers! same story with Matt Mills, just cough up the extra cash before we lose out altogether!
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I can live with this. Two CBs and a LB, please.
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Look when we were looking to buy these players before their respective moves to “BIRMINGHAM” we should have been a little more competetive.Blues paid 6,500 more a week in wages ok,but now they are selling him for 10mill!!! Based on a sale of 9million Blues will still make 2.3 million profit after the wages paid to this player.!My point this scenario needs to be considered by MOXEY as most of our purchases are either let go or go out on “LOAN” so I dont see any making of profit on players!Also some of our recent buys have ended on the loan trial….Halford,hoff and moyouloko for instance.Total cost including wages for these three mentioned is 7.8 million!!!Yet they have played a total 14 “GAMES”!So that is 7.8 million gone!Wich could very well have been used for “JOHNSON”so the same desperation will take place,players will be bought and wont get in the side!!!!!So the “GLARING” question is why do we get it so wrong in the transfer market?
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OMG what the H man!! Gardner and Dann are Losers!!
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Look, if Mick wants Mills as badly as it seems, stump up the extra cash (not much in football terms) and agree a fee at least………. We face losing out on this deal too.
I am not having a pop at the club but sometimes we may have to pay the going rate for players and not get a bargain.
We missed out on Dann over wages, how much is he worth now?? Dont make the same mistake with Mills. He is a quality defender and we need players like him. Good leader too.
I hear all that Morgan says about wanting to go to the next level etc………… but this will cost money.
As I said, im not having a dig as such just seems obvious to me that by penny pinching at times we are missing out on quality signings and ending up with Halford types for £2 mil………….. thats crazy to me.
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Not sour grapes but i never rated him anyway! Looks like thats going to be the story of this transfer window,we went for lots of players but got trumped at the last minute on wages.Makes me think that we are in for another let down with the lad from Reading then!! We will match his transfer fee,but Stoke will pay him better wages.
Come on 3M’s make us feel that this is not the case and lets get the defence that we so badly need!!
UTW
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I agree with Davey!
But if we want to attract and obtain quality we need to offer better wages offered by other clubs or at least match them. We cannot keep losing out on players because another club is offering more, showing more desire and ambition.
If someone offered me more to do the same job Im doing now, I’d do it. So you cannot blame any player.
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Brilliant!!!
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Davey and edin wolf….Gardener had all ready on a previous occassion “REJECTED” a move so….So why we were after him again wasting valuable time I dont understand?!
He does not owe wolves ought,so when a player as no affilation with a club prior to moving his motives of the move are going to be based around earnings.!!!Added with the fact that “SUNDERLAND” will not be fighting for relegation!!So wake up boys and smell the “COFFEE” and start looking at the whole picture not one that suits you like with ” MOXEY “.!
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We don’t need the guy anyway. I don’t see how he would be an improvement on what we already have.
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To all who think over paying on wages is the only way to succeed…
How did Blues and West Ham get on last season?
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Truckin
You’re right in what you say about accepting the better offer, but you’ve got to remember Sunderland are bankrolled by a multi-millionaire owner, their debt is in the £100′s of millions.
Albion and Wolves are run properly and within their means. If Sunderland’s owner ever asks for that money back (which he has every right to), they’ll be in desperate trouble. In the meantime, let them pay over the odds.
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1) Agree with you.
2) Your logic works well for normal people, these however are not normal, they are already millionaires in most cases, and go to none first choice teams just for the money. Greedy is what they are.
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You couldn’t make this up could you .Oh sorry you just have !!
The way Wolves deal in the transfer market ie never disclose anything until its finished and then very little once its completed .I really can’t see anyone at Wolves getting involved in this story .
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We just dont need this guy, plus, if he doesn’t fir the wage structure then tough. I think the collective approach to wages is why our team spirit is so strong.
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Whilst we are very shrewd with our recruitment policy, I still think that £25k a week is a low offer, for someone who proved a success in the Premiership last season. Jamie O’Hara has taken a £45k a week contract and Gardner would have been worth offering say £35k?
It looks like we will lose Mills also. Leicester have offered the £4m and Reading are waiting on Wolves or Stoke to match? It is unlikely that Blues will get the £10m for Johnson but I reckon that there might be a chance at £8m – when the dust settles. My biggest worry is that we end up with the likes of Upson and Dunne – the latter is that slow and has a turning circle of an articulated lorry!
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Having seen Gardner play for blues and O’Hara for us – There is only one choice for me. Gardner is not as good as evryone makes out. He only looked good for blues becasue the players around him weren’t up to scratch, and the emphasis on him because he was a Bluenose.
O hara for me everytime – loyal, hardworking and wants to play for wolves. Gardner – money grabber
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Here we go again….. We would have signed —– —— but we didn’t.
For goodness sake raise the bar and use the funds that are available now rather than waste it on panic buys come the end of August.
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1 – I see your point but wolves have got the same advantages as sunderland except the wages. Gardener will want to do well wherever he goes and if he gets more money from 1 club what’s he going to do its a no brainer
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Number 6. This is ALL said in hindsight which is easy. You win some you lose some. Everyone forgets the BIG money mistakes that Ferguson makes at Man United so that is prrof in any were needed that anyone can make them……..
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Id pay the extra cash for Mills because his Mrs is stunning!
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We just seem to be a couple of years behind the curve on a lot of things.
The money we would offer him and Dann now would have secured them two years ago but given they’ve proved themselves in the prem during this time, their demands go up more than we are prepared to accept. Wonder if we could give some of Mick’s not so successful signings away for free, e.g. the ones that wouldn’t even fit into our 25 (Halford, Maierhofer) and split the savings from their salaries to actually get the class of players we need for our next leg of pushing on.
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Not being funny, but how many times does this happen to us? 3M’s stick your neck on the line!
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just seen on other webpages mad mick is in reading i bet we will get upson and dunne and watch the goals go in our net ohara any day off the week gardner can go back in the garden pulling weeds
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Hmmm you have a good point Davey. Only sign players who will bust a gut for the famous old shirt. Men who have attitude & desire who really want to make Wolves a force. Like O’Hara. But i am starting to believe we need to strike a happy medium here and up the ante on wages if we are to progress in this league and realise the vast potential Wolves have. In other words i believe its better to pay an outstanding player an extra 5-10grand a week or an extra half a million on the transfer fee than go for a lesser target who doesn’t come up to scratch and prove to be a false economy. As for Dann, i still can’t for the life of me, understand why we didn’t sign him & Fox when they were right under our noses at Walsall & we watched them go to Coventry on the cheap.
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Premiership club with a championship transfer policy, you couldnt make it up.
Whilst we havent lost out on the Gardner thing as i feel we didnt need him anyway, we will lose out on other more needed players.
i agree with being frugal but if we want to spend this season outside the relegation zone for more than 5 mins we’re going to have to pay close to the wages these players are asking for.
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Yawn, we here the same things every transfer market , we almost signed so and so .
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Stop winging Wolves….If you had really wanted the player you have to face up to the fact you have got to pay up.Looks like we were again jumped by another club with more guts and foresight.
Drop Moxey off, and get someone that can get results
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The reason he allegedly preferred us may have been more to do with staying in the area with all that that means, family, social connections, etc. than it actually did with Wolves as a club. In the end, wages triumphed. We don’t need to add to that department of the team – other areas need more attention.
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Craddockinho – No-one wants Wolves to over spend, just compete in the market with other clubs. How can we ever succeed in moving to the next level as Morgan puts it, if we dont raise the bar regarding wages a bit? Qulaity players are always in demand and we have to compete with other clubs to get them.
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I am with daveywolf…
I want players who play for the shirt not because they can get a bit more wedge somewhere else.
Sunderland splash the cash year on year but they are a going nowhere club. I am proud we are debt free and building for the future.
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Agree with daveywolf..
Though if Mick got rid of light weight players like Keogh, Halford, jones and Edwards etc, these players are on 10-20k a week doing nothing, then we could raise the bar on wages for the quality players we want…
We have too many similar players who are just not good enough and their wages would be better spent on better players…
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How many more players will we lose like this, I for one are a little fed up with it.. If we keep losing our main targets, we end up signing the players that Mick did not overly want.. I will be more peed off though, if Mick does not go out and sign a commanding defender.. Though this does not bode well for getting Johnson, we will be gazumped again on wages.
I don’t want to see Wolves throwing money around and getting us in trouble.. I just want to see an improvement in players.. But sadly nothing looks too postive at the moment, and unless we pull a few signings that fill the gap in quality.. We will be heading for another season at the bottom..
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No loss as far as I am concerned and I dont blame him for going for the extra money, most people offered the same job but with one paying more would do the same. Anywho, Gardner is way too hot-headed for my liking.
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Just waking from my summer slumbers…..
Funny how the same people who spent last season moaning about the manager and players are now the same ones complaining about the lack of transfer activity.
Given the theme of the threads we would have got rid of McCarthy (costing compensation for the old and new manager) spent money on over valued players and wages and got rid of established players for a cut price. But lo and behold we have achieved a 3rd season in the Premiership doing it the 3M’s way, without the suicidal spending!
Please let the 3Ms get on with doing what they have proved more than capable of – running a solvent Premier League football club.
Don’t panic about new signings and definately don’t sign players that are moving for money only.
Gardner – lifelong Blues fan, helps to get them relegated and then clears off, just the type of player we need! NOT
UTW
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WELL DONE WOLVES
SAME OLD SAME OLD
WE MISS OUT ON OUR SO CALLED MAIN TARGETS DUE TO US NOT PAYING THAT EXTRA MONEY.OUT BID BY LEICESTER FOR MILLS PAY UP WOLVES OR THAT WILL BW ANOTHER TARGET WE LOSE
CAN SEE US PLAYING WITH THE SAME TEAM AS LAST YEAR WITH A COUPLE OF CHEAP BELOW AVERAGE PLAYER AND AGAIN SITTING IN THE BOTTOM 3
JUST ANOTHER DISAPOINTING TRANSFER WINDOW
MICK OUT MICK OUT MICK OUT
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14 – how many of the teams that finished above wolves last season pay high wages. Millionaires or not in most cases who ever has the most on the table will usually get the player. If you want better players you have to produce the money that’s just the way it is.
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I ain’t bothered about this, he is not nearly as good as O’Hara and if he went to Sunderland for money then good for them!
Money needs to be spent on the defence as the priority and there is no way we will suffer from injuries like last season. 2 centre backs and a left back is a must. I would like to see Matt Mills come in alongside another player at a good age like Evans or Bassong but if we go down the experience route like Cuellar or Dunne that would be fine aswell. As for left backs Konchesky, Bertrand, Kieron Gibbs?
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Moxey loses out again….
MM wanted the player but tight wad won’t part with the cash.
I cannot believe the mentality of our supporters who think the player is wrong to go to another club offering more money.
It is a job not a love affair…money matters to the players.
MM is the one that will get the bullet if we get relegated whilst Moxey is ”fire proof”.
SUNDERLAND are NOT a big club and being outbid by them shows the small time mentality of the people running our club.
Just remember MM wanted them and MOXEY has failed to get them.
WE OFFERED HIM THE SAME MONEY HE WOULD GET IN THE 1ST DIVISION.
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some of you ought to get real, these players play for one thing, money
their careers are short and they need to earn as much as they can for when it’s over.
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I would like to start by saying I’m delighted and excited by the new stadium and the general health of the football club.
However, I feel this is all so predictable. The same scenario occurs on countless targets, or were they? Just trying to appease the fans? It is all very commendable running a tight ship but not at all beneficial to attracting players that can take us to the next level. I would rather, in line with all the other transfer activity, they keep this in house. Maybe they have and this is disinformation.
So it would appear noone from the ‘wishlist’ is affordable, wonderful planning! OK an exception is O’Hara but that deal was secured in January with no other clubs to compete against.
Back training on Monday, cue panic buys, dodgy loans and a relegation battle.
Come on Wolves, prove me wrong!
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Angry Wolf has a valid point in that if you believe a certain player has the qualities to strengthen the team then you bid the going rate. If you are happy to miss out for the sake of a few thousand pounds then a) he was not the right player or b) you didn’t want him enough or c)you are continually happy to settle for second or third best. And let’s face it, the majority of players signed in the last 3 years have been a failure. Fingers crossed that somedody at Molineux does more than worry about flogging the new shirts.
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i agree with davy turned us down before so wouldnt want the mercenry anyway good ridence
when you consider all the bad buys and the cost we could have bought johnson and had change left over
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40 — Yes ask Pompey !!
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Stoke have publicly stated that they are also looking more at a home-grown player philosophy and cutting down on its European scouting efforts.
So we identify the players and put in bids. Once the target players’ club makes public what they want following Wolves’ refusal to pay such an amount (to the club or the player), in step the clubs with both the means to pay and the understanding that you have to pay a little more than what you think is right – simply because supply is scarce and Sky pays so much money.
I fully expect Dunne and a season loan (since they work so well) followed by 101 excuses by Moxey and a season in and out of the relegation zone.
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We’d all do the same when it comes down to money 500 here or 650 down the road we’d be down the road, He be telling the fans he’s always wanted to play for sunderland!
They will always pay better wages than most teams because there’s only one good thing about sunderland and thats the road out of it heading south!
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learn by your mistakes you go for cheaper options they flop you are stuck with them no one wants them , hoff etc never gonna play again but they still get there wages , so for quality pay the little extra hads quality and expierence to the team, and us fans will get our monies worth and we dont have go thru what we went thru last season my nails are growing back nicely now :)
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Look Lads,
I’ve been reading your comments and you’re slightly deluded. Sunderland is a much bigger club than Wolves…its up and coming with aspirations of europe. We’ve cemented ourselves in the top division and we are one of the best run clubs in the country with great backing and a great chairman. Our support and facilities are up there with the big boys….so its a no brainer really why Gardner chose us…..Wickham/Gyan certainly agreed.
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We`ve heard it all before,”we were going to sign so and so but…”.What a load of waffle.Moxey go and get stuffed and McCarthy if you really want a player tell the idiot and insist,or are you just a coach and not the Manager?Even Woodgate is going to Leicester,and we wait for clubs to drop their prices to what we want to pay?Rubbish.Come on Mr.Morgan,show us who really is in charge,do your stuff and you might just fill your new stand.
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all i can say is the lad cant have much ambition, sunderland are a small minded club constantly existing in the shadow of thier much bigger brothers at newcastle, they have to throw ridiculously high wages at players to attract them. sunderland only have 2 goals every year , 1 is to avoid relegation and 2 is to live in hope of getting three points from newcastle united.
they will never push into europe and will never win any domestics.. how can you with half a team of loanees every year, i think gardner will realise his mistake soon enough, wolves may get him on the cheap next year when he is desperate to leave sunderland……
forever toon army,,,,,,, good luck to the wolves…..
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If Steve Bruce shows no improvement after all the money (and wages) he has already spent this summer, then he will be one of the first casualties by Christmas. He has no excuses as their Management renewed their faith in him last season – totally misplaced faith in my opinion!!!
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We need to be prepared to up our wage structure if we want better players but we don’t need him anyway. Get a left back and a centre back as minimum.
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Get real will some of you. If your other halves run your household the way you think wolves should be run, they will be in dire straits sooner than you think.
A budget is a budget, you break it to often and you end up like the rest of the premiership….in debt.
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Would rather be lower premiership and solvent than Championship and broke. Look at the pickle Birmingham, Portsmouth and West Ham got themselves into…
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SAFC – You’re right, some of our fans are deluded, but you can’t really point that out & then try and claim Sunerland are well run! You make massive losses year on year but you have had so far a very generous owner willing to plug the gaps….. how long that will last is anybody’s guess, especially when those losses mean you won’t be allowed in Europe even if Bruce did manage to produce a whole season of good football.
I don’t blame Gardner for going up there if they offered more cash and I really don’t even care that he’s gone up there. For a couple of weeks now the E&S have been desperate to create some Wolves news because they’re not being told any. To make out we’re somehow “missing out” on Seb Larsson is laughable. It’s interesting to note the lack of quotes from the club in any of these “wolves are after player x” stories.
Gardner was not a “main target” O’Hara was our “main target” in midfield & we got him. If we were in for Gardner that badly, we’d have gone for him ahead of O’Hara.
As for “paying the going rate”….. that is a ridiculous statement. We pay what we can afford & that is right. If you have a shopping budget of £50, but the going rate at Harrods for your shop is £70 and the going rate at Sainsbury’s is £50….. where do you shop ? And do you then shout at yourself in the mirror for not having enough “ambition” to shop at Harrods ?!
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As I have said before – we do not need to buy many players – we just need to spend big on the players we need – the nucleus of the squad, especially up front, wings and central is all capable of creating and scoring goals. what we need is QUALITY – defenders.
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Can’t have ‘footballers’ earning more than the CEO, it’s just not cricket,not the done thing.
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I agree with what a lot are saying regarding budgets, keeping the club solvent etc….
the truth is that there has to be a middle ground, at the moment the there is talk of Milijas going, Mouyokolo (now fit) has gone on loan although we bought him last year specifically to imrpove our defence, whilst at the same time talking about needing to improve our defence????? Go figure.
Ultimately, it’s a fact that you have to speculate to accumulate, and I am genuinely concerned that if we continues with this frugal approach then the we shall ultimately end up going down as those around us improve, we then lose most of our better players and have to start again.
Year on year we need to improve, just to stay where we are, and without doing so we shall go down and have to start from scratch!!!
Final point to all those saying get rid of MM, he can only target players, he does not decide the contract. I believe Morgan has to say to Moxey, if it costs £5-10k more to get the player then play it!!!!!!!!!!
Here’s hoping for a succesful tranfers market????
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Can someone please tell me the last time we made a decent profit on a player we have bought and sold?
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According to the BBC website Gardner is quoted as saying as soon as he heard Sunderland where in for him ,it was a”no brainer” that he joined such a big club etc etc. It is a shame that we have not signed him,becauase a hard working midfielder capable of scoring 10 goals from midfield would have made a big difference to us.By and large football matches are won or lost in midfield.Mick has now wanted him in 3 of the last 4 transfer windows.If we end up with third or fourth choice targets,we should expect another very difficult season.
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Oh please, lets get real! “It is understood”? By who?
The E&S doesn’t have access to Wolves transfer policy and are guessing. He lives local, used to play in the Premier League, so OBVIOUSLY he turned us down for more money elsewhere. So you reckon Gardner is on more the O’Hara? I think not.
As for Larsson…Why would we want HIM? Lazy, no threat and not even anywhere near as good as what we already have in our squad.
We will sign players who will take us to the next level, not down!
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same old same old. frustrating but if they dont want to play for wolves 100% then dont come. on the other hand do we need to up the ante a little bit. its ok having new stands built but we were very close to going down. i think we need a centre half if not two. another midfielder who can tackle and a leader. in short i am confused.
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If we continue to survive in the Prem, surely at some stage the club will have to look at the question of making our wage structure broadly competetive?
I’m actually a little sorry for McCarthy, who must feel like he’s peeing in the wind when he outlines his ‘favoured’ targets to Moxey.
I’m not altogether bothered about missing out on Gardener, but given that we also lost out on Sidwell 6 months ago, doesn’t this indicate that McCarthy feels we continue to lack in this area?
Yesterday’s story regarding our willingness to wait for ‘bargains’(!) doesn’t bode well…
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sometimes you have to go that little bit further to get the players you really want,
its a false econemy to say we wont pay 5 million for johnson a few seasons ago only to bid 8 million now, and not to pay the wages for gardner 2 seasons ago only to offer 1.5 million more on his transfer fee now.
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This “familiar story” is why Wolves are not bankrupt or in huge debt and on the rise while other clubs have at times brought in top class players at high prices and found themselves in the second tier of the league a few season later.
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62 – Because of the way the club is set up & run, we don’t need to cash in on our best players.
Kightly, Jarvis, SEB, Doyle, Foley, Edwards, Henry, Elokobi, Stearman……… we would sell for a decent profit on the original outlay, thankfully, we don’t have to…….. be grateful !
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Kentish, We made £9m profit two seasons ago,and will have made a substantial profit last season.So we could have afforded to spend more on players.In fact with hindsight we would have been a lot smarter if we had coughed up for Johnson and Dann two seasons ago.No point in going to ASDA and not paying a tenner for something you want ,if it os going to cost you twenty quid the following week.That is a false economy.But as no 60 is alluding to,the CEO will be on a big bonus if we make a profit.
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What a joke we are even being outbid by Championship clubs for players.Despite that Im not being bothered about Gardner Moxey needs to get real or we will end up the same as last season with the scroats no one else wants.I am fed up with paying the eigth most expensive tickets in the Prem and having to watch seventith quality football.
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47 – sorry my point obviously doesn’t stand then?
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69. With the exception of perhaps Doyle we would be very lucky to get a combined total of £7 – 8m for that lot, and how many of them are seriously good enough for the prem? Doyle at a push, but I can’t see loads of prospective bidders for him when he only scores 5 goals a season.
One decent player is worth about the same as all those you have mentioned.
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If their intent is to buy another midfielder I would go for Hitzleburger who has a hammer of a shot and is a top midfielder who wouldnt cost the earth.My focus would not be midfielders but two good CBs and a LB maybe Bertrand on loan but no cut price last offer bargain basement scroats who cant do the job.
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Any young prem quality midfielder who can top score for his side is worth circa 8m so Gardner would have been a steal at 4.5m so surely we could have afforded a few grand more each week.
I think its imperative we get Vaughn now, another goal scoring midfielder whose opta stats on passing and tackling are very impressive.
He`s turned sunderland due to where he lives so we must convince him to sign for us.
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Been speaking with a few Reading supporters today they tell me Mills is good but not much pace. Worrying seen as though he will be playing in the fastest league in the world !!!!! Christophe Berra springs to mind.
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We survived last season by a whisker. We might not be so lucky next time round.
Moxey needs to forget his bottom line bonus and relax the purse strings.
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Kentish I agree a budget is good but it has to compete or we don’t move forward simple.
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Ive said it many times before we need Quality not Quantity and you have to pay for Quality.I would rather have one Quality CB that 3 other Championship players if thats what it takes.
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73 – Your question was, when was the last time we sold somebody for a decent profit ? It wasn’t how many are good enough for the Prem ? that’s an entirely different debate. Even taking your lowest estimate of £7million, which is a joke by the way, Jarvis would sell for at least that on his own, that would still represent good profit because our outlay was so minimal….. that was the point.
Chris – When that £9million profit was announced, Moxey said we were on course for another profit but it was be less than £9 million for last season. You don’t think it’s wise for the club to protect itself against any down turn in financial conditions ? This could be relegation which none of us want, or it could be Sky losing a massive court case about how it sells it’s football and the TV deals being cut accordingly….. who knows.
In hindsight I suspect many things we’ve all done, we’d have done differently, nature of life I’m afraid.
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51) Mate you are in cuckoo land. Sunderland have not won more major trophies than Wolves, you are in debt and your manager is nothing special. You currently have a better ground but won’t have shortly. There is not a chance of you challenging for Europe. What does it say that a side sells Darren Bent?
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oneokoronkwo – We spent 25k on Kightly, hes now easily worth £2 million, £1.5 mill on SEB, who is easily worth £4 million +, Around £1 mill for Foley who is now easily worth around £2.5 mill,675k for Edwards who is worth around £2 mill, 100k for Henry who is easily worth £2 mill now, around 200k for Elokobi who is now worth around £2 mill,about £1 mill for Stearman who is worth around £2.5 mill now.
Thats a grand total of £17 mill for a group of players that cost us around £4.5 mill. You will probably dissagree with the valuations of the players, but in actual fact, given our league position and our current financies we could probably get more for those players. I also took most of the valuations from a website that severly undervalued many of our players, such as valuing Fletcher at £3.9 million, as if we wouldnt get at least what we paid for him given his performances last season.
As for your Doyle comment, he scored 5 goals last season, but that is the only season he has scored 5 goals. He scored 9 goals the season before and scored 18 and 13 goals in his 2 premier league seasons at reading. Thats an average of 11.25 goals a season in the premier league, and each season has been with a relegation fighting club which is pretty good stats. Given that he is excellent at the other side of his game aswell, im pretty sure that we would have a host of clubs hoping to get him for at least £10 mill.
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if garderners gone for the money you cant blame him for that, like many other posts on here i agree we want players who want to play for this great club but sometimes you have to take that next step and if that means paying a bit more in wages then go for it mr Morgan, Craig Gardener scored 10 goals from midfield with a team that got relegated, he,s 24 and fits into Micks young and hungry ethos so i,m disapointed we missed out on him.
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Lose some win some. Personally dont want mills, 4mil for an unproven CB is ALOT. Would rather we moved on to other targets like Evans, Dunne, Bassong. I also think Johnson should be bought even if it is for 10mil. I’m not saying take that attitude to every deal, but some deals we need to push the boat out slightly to get the players who will make a difference.
Johnson, Evans, Bertrand, CM(similar to Gardner but someone who actually wants to play for us rather than rejecting us at every opportunity)
Get these with time for them to gel and settle before the season and we could be in for a very good season.
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I’m fed up with reading people’s comments on how great it is that we’re debt free and what about Portsmouth, Leeds, West Ham, Corinthians blah blah blah.
Having debt is not a bad thing necessarily. Too much, yes – since servicing costs and renegotiating in times of higher interest rates (as Liverpool under Gillett and Hicks and Manure found out in the recent financial crisis) has a major impact if the financial gearing is too high. But debt forms any part of a growth strategy – provided it fits in a framework of your assets and cashflow.
Leeds, Portsmouth, West Ham, Birmingham etc. were all flawed business models for a number of reasons.
Look at Gardener, for example – signed two years ago but no salary reduction in case of relegation. West Ham had a wage bill of over £70m against income of less than this – ridiculous. That’s just two little examples.
No-one is asking Morgan to break the bank. However, the stakes need to be raised to avoid the risk that our cashflow loses the almost £50m from being in this division. Pinching a few pennies here and there doesn’t help – nor does going for cheaper priced alternatives that end up being high cost when no-one else wants them. How much is the Hoff going to cost us, for example, for his contribution to the team? How much have our recent centre half purchases cost us in terms of salary and devaluations?
A little bit of speculation is what is needed at this time in amongst the overall prudence. We survived by the skin of our teeth last season – spending up a bit now to try and deliver a mid-table(ish) finish won’t cripple us should we go down. And let’s not forget that there’s an additional c. £0.5m for each place we climb come the end of the season.
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Like i have said on here b4 why bother with trying to sign these bluenoses Gardner and Dann picked money over moving to us Johnson just a ok player when he got Dann alongside him and the swede was just after the best deal he could get even turned down the Gunners for Sunderland dont want these type of players at the Wolves not that bothered if with miss out on Mills either average player i would like us to sign Warnock for left back Dunne and Cuellar or Bassong but would lose him in the new year cus of the ANC Woodgate only if we could sign him on a play as you play deal also for midfield would like Joey Barton or Reo Coker and let sandwell town have Vaughan up the wolves
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Personally I think we were nowhere near to signing Gardner. The impression I get is that Wolves didn’t expect a stubborn Birmingham City with their evaluation over Johnson with that there’s a feeling of one: A guess work from the E&S who are echoing fans calls for players they prefer to see signed or two: Wolves are feeding false stories into the media domain.
Although I’m not too bothered with us missing out on Gardner or to miss out on Mills however there is a concern about if Mills is our only affordable option of a centre half, this doesn’t bode well for obvious reasons, our back four needs a major jolt of quality and these early signs are worrying but it is early, let’s take the money out the situation here, we’ve had the chairman talk about O’Hara being a pull for more players, this a player who was relegated with Pompey and still almost relegated with us last season. Don’t get me wrong I think he’s a good player but is he really going to be the main attraction for other players? He’s on 35k week so maybe the money on wages isn’t a problem but perhaps this all boils down to the possibilty that the 3 M’s are not quite selling their vision for our club very well to their targets. Is it down to them working a bit slow as well? Could it be the manager who’s struggling to attract these players? Well, either way we won’t be moving into mid-table if we don’t make any significant signings, like the Konchesky link seems dead now. Where do Wolves go from here if we miss out on Mills to Leicester City?
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Not one person has mentioned the fact that Wolves have an excellent young home grown central defender who is chomping at the bit to be given an opportunity in the Premier League
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All im saying is where is the offical statement saying this, untill its published on the wolves website this is a bull piece of writing and guess of a report. if someone points out there has been one i will admit i am wrong.
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We surley need to break the wage cap to attract better players as long as we still get them but cheaper
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If we DO miss out on Mills, as seems quite likely; from the 6 stated (by the E&S, at least) main summer transfer targets of O’Hara, Johnson, Dann, Mills, Gardner and Westwood, we’ll have succeeded in securing the services of just 1 player.
Whether you rate the players concerned or not, that statistic tells it’s own story.
By any estimation, it now suggests that we’re going to be resigned to scrambling after second-choice targets, and what’s particularly depressing is that of the aforementioned players, only Dann seems likely to go to a club of above middling-Premiership standard.
A further, inescapable factor, is that the general perception of us will have been harmed by our skin-of-the-teeth survival. Will players want to commit to us when we seem unable to bolster a squad that was barely adequate last season?
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Hate to have some of you running our club.
seems some will not be happy til we’re bust again.
things like PL club paying championship wages, penny-pinching, new stands dont pay for themselves.
what would happen if all the cash we made went on wages ? how would we fund future transfer fees or additional wages ?
could have a proper moan then, eh ?
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Perhaps Mr Moxey can explain to me why the “we do not talk about transfers until they are done and dusted” approach does not seem to apply to our failures. Frankly I do not care too much that we missed out on Gardner, but I do care when it leaves our club looking like some two bit cheap organisation. Perhaps the club feel we will love them even more if they tell us how hard they are trying and how principled they are. Well they are wrong, admiting these failures does not help build bridges and makes us look like Sunderland’s poor neighbour, which is not a prospect I would care to envisage. So in future keep it to yourselves and let us know when you have news worth telling.
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The team is run without any real superstars and evidence suggests that you have to fit in with Mick or you’re out.
This isn’t necessarily a bad thing – however, is it enough for us to push on to the next level?
I worry that it isn’t – we need some premier experience in the defence. Jody is a decent squad member but pick a number between 10 and 25 for how many games he’ll be fit for this season. At the moment, that leaves us with a combination of Stearman, Berra, Zubar and Batth (who he probably wants out on loan).
His track record on successful foreigners is pretty poor – only Zubar and Guedioura would fall into that category although neither have really excelled with maybe Milijas on the undecided list. Mujangi Bia, Van Damme, Hoff and Mouyokolo haven’t come close to either making the grade or actually being on the pitch much! So does that rule out the likes of Bassong or Cuellar coming?
We seem to be priced out/unwilling to pay for British prem experienced centre halves so we either pay over the odds for unproven Mills or another championship ‘potential’ or end up with another last legs players such as Dunne.
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a local newspaper prints a story, to make the natives restless and sell newspapers, and guess what? they succeed, and some folk even start to believe that they can run multi million pound organisations.
mind you it is the silly season with bored fans with nothing to do till the season kicks off, and all the madness starts again.
wwfc for ever.
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were going down mills aint that great iff we get bassong and jonhson then we be in mid table fletcher doyle up front ohara hunt jarvis hammil sell henry to norwich or qpr then doyle and fletcher up front left back that one from west ham hiztsliger somthing like that lol
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So Gardner preferred to come to us rather than Sunderland, just like Matt Mills would prefer to come to us rather than go to Reading! For the sake of a few quid Moxey, come up with the £4 million and get Mills. It would be a complete embarrassment if we lost out to a Championship club. There’s a fine line obviously between being prudent and lacking ambition and I fear we are starting to near the latter. I for one would rather us break even and stay in the Premier League as against 20 years in the Championship.
At this rate we are going to end up with the same team as last year plus a couple of aged 30+ has beens.
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@ 51. James SAFC, all things equal I think wolves are as considerably bigger club than Sunderland! Even with your expensively assembled squad you only half fill your ground, whereas we would near fill the same capacity. also how many top flight championships have Sunderland ever won?
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1) Daveywolf – spot on my friend
Birmingham have spent more money than us over the last two years yet it is them who will be playing Championship football next season, I would much rather us stick to our policy of signing players that are young, hungry and not motivated by money!
That said, as many have already pointed out, we need to avoid being as wasteful as we have been with signings such as halford, hoff and mouyokolo and not buy for the sake of buying as this is just as bad, instead waiting for the moment when the right player comes along like we did with o’hara, guedioura, jarvis and fletcher!
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If we are, as we’re supposed to be, focused on acquiring a CB and LB then Gardner isn’t a priority buy, but probably in the good to have category.
However our track record for buying defenders in the PL years is poor, one success in four – round about fail level for a variery of reasons – if we were marking strictly.
Just to complicate matters now the lad Mills, who I assume is a second choice CB, has rapidly worked his way out of the bargain basement category and is poised to become part of a bidding war. For an unproved PL defender at 4m possibly rising to 5 and 20 – 25k pw wages this deal is beginning not to make sense.
Which is probably making the case to retain Sterra and Berra and just do the business for Evans – at least they’ve played PL.
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All I can say is Wolves – get ready for Survival Sunday Round 2 when Wigan send us down in the last game. Championship defense for 2 seasons is pushing it but 3 season!! Looks like Moxey likes to gamble on a knife edge. Up the wages man or we will end up with Useless Upson, Dour Dunne, and Kardboard Kutout Konchesky and plenty more injuries.
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Looking forward to another relegation fight lads?
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Giving the Manager,Moxey and Morgan a break here,Are we forgetting something , What are the scouts doing?It seems to me that these days you perm any transfer target of any three from four, players up for grabs Surely potential players should be scrutinised week in week out over a season and should not be judged on just cost and wage demands alone.If he performs week in week out and slowly meets the grade then get him in Good Scouting just seems to be bye passed these days for the sake of big money.Liverpool and Bill Shankley didn’t seem to have a problem with it in the 60′s
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51. Sunderland are a bigger club? And you call us deluded!! You are no bigger than us or our friends west brom for that matter.
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Come on wolves fan Gardiner is a great player and we no that
Him and o hare in mid would be great, I am sick and tired
Of moxey and Morgan saying we tried to sign him
Rubbish! I
Iiiii
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We never get any good players linked with every player but end up getting load of rubbish, we have the same side as last season and all we have is a goalie great moxey and Morgan thanks again. We will be bottom three again next season, listen to fans and spend some money that u said you where going to do! Get real we are in the prem and must live up to the big spenders
It’s ok being cautious it we are to the exstream. Sign johnson , evans and good left back, plus good midfielder.
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Garner
No great loss.
Average player with a good shot/strike rate.
Mills
No great loss Decent player £4M???????
Johnston
No great loss
£8M overpriced for a non international who was poor without Scott Dann.
Milias/Hanneman/Molone Griffiths/Mancienne/Myacollo etc gone
O’hare Shoe in “Signature” signing this year(Compare with Mills £4M?????????????
De vries Cheap.
Well where has all the Money gone?
Us Paying Fans are sponsoring Mr Morgans Investment. Wake up everyone.
Taxi
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Moxey,
what next?
Are you going to be outbid by ”mighty” Leicester City for Mills?
Wouldn’t be surprised if you did.
Never mind most of our supporters have brought into your ” we are solvent” tales.
We WOULD like to be entertained please. Not the only solvent team in the Fizzy Pop League.
The solvency ”things apply to teams entering Europe so I don’t really think it should worry you.
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Anyone who thinks a player is going to choose a club who will pay them about £5k less a week is missing the point. Would you?
The market rate for quality proven players is what it is and that includes wages. You either pay it and gain the player, get lucky with a lower league or overseas player, or suffer the consequences.
I think it is great that the club’s finances are run well. Without a quality CH, LB and midfielder we’ll be playing in the Championship.
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A – Liverpool won 1-0
H – Chelsea won 1-0
H – Man Utd won 2-1
Does anyone recognise these scores??
Yet suddenly our defence isn’t good enough and everyone wants us to spend £10mill on Johnson (who will want at least 30k/a week and probably more)
£4mill on Mills who guaranteed can get 20-25k a week (from Stoke and/or Leicester) and £3.5mill on Warnock or Konchesky (both of who are on at least 35k a week).
We do this and suddenly Jarvo and Doyle want parity on wages, throw in O’hara’s wage and oh look we’re suddenly spending about 200k a week on 6 players wages.
So much for being a well run debt free club – thank goodness we’re not run by supporters but by business men (who happen to quite like the club aswell).
Personally I’m happy for the 3M’s to do their business in private and surprise us every now and then with a signing.
But hey all the speculation is fun aswell!!!
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Break the wage cap but not yet.
There’s a fine balance to a team. ‘fraid Gardner isn’t a superstar who we should break the wage cap for. Why should we sign him and pay him much more than anyone else in the team ? Think Doyle might have something to think about after that ? or Jarvo ? Let other clubs pay over the odds on average players.
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Like many I’m not sure of the authenticy of this particular piece of journalism – but like many I am also concerned that we are not getting on with recruiting essential defenders for our 3rd season in the EPL.
For those younger generation of supporters who are appalled at the business that Sunderland are doing & also being out bid by Leicester for Matt Mills this is nothing new for this great club of our for as long as I can remember (40+ years).
1. We missed out on George Best as a 15yr old – he supported us.
2. We missed out on Francis Lee to Man City in 1967 over 5 quid in wages.
3. We missed out on Ally McCoist to Sunderland in his early career over wages.
4. We missed out on Michel Platini when Barnwell was manager over fees before he went to Juventus.
5. We missed out on Karmeni ( Cameroon GK) in 2003.
6. We missed out on a young manager called Alex Fergusen before he joined Man Utd
Get my drift – missing out on Dann, Johnson, Gardener, Sidwell is nothing new.
Our result in missing out on Franny Lee was securing Steve Kindon – hardly a comparison.
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If we do want a goalscoring midfielder with possibly more potential than Gardner, why not take a look at McGugan from Forest? He scores some great long range goals, is deadly at set pieces, younger than Gardner and most important of all, would get him for £3 million and £15k a week – makes sense all round.
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Well me for one thinks on certain players maybe bid a lil or offer a lil more but all these clubs willing to pay asking price or up wages to get a player are already in debt. I see Leicester City splashing out on so many players….bet the wages they offer are over the top and am sure they already in debt….so imagine if wolves did the same. Say we then get relegated n did a Leeds….what would moaners say then? We face liquidation in 2nd tier of football league because we offered over the top wages on players who prefered money over anything else. As for Garnder…S’land can have him, we got the midfield i am happy with, I would gamble on Mills as he is young n has a good reputation as a defender and leader. johnson I wouldnt pay more than 7million. Would like to know what situation is with Konchesky tho..as at 3.5 million he is cheap altho i bet his wages are 45k or something at liverpool.
Love da Wolves!!
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For those who keep going on about how we missed out on Dann, Johnson and Gardner. When I last checked I am sure they got relegated.
Wolves didn’t!
No great loss then.
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Wouldn’t mind all the fuss if the players were any good. Stay with the wage structures Jez. 3 seasons in the Premiership with more to come. Guys we’ll stay up next season too. And we won’t run up unnecessary expenses. Finishing halfway would be boring. Leave it till the last games again. UTW
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Wolfrun2010- I remember Steve Kindon scored a great goal once ran from the halfway line, loved the great lump…..
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i do think this shows how naive the 3Ms are with their transfer policy.
In the championship they oftens targeted the players from relegated championship and League1 teams like edwards who were hungry and wanted the chance to play at a higher level with a bigger club.
However when you target players from relegated prem clubs like johnson,dann,upson,gardner who are already on more money than most of our squad. You need to be able to meet their clubs asking price but also meet the players wage demands.
If your wage cap means you know you cant really offer them what they are looking for then stop wasting your time and spend your energy looking elsewhere.
Wigan,bolton,blackburn have all survived in this league by buying clever and by accepting that currently they cant attract a certain calible of player to their clubs.Why dont we learn from them??
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take a look at all those bargain buys that are still languishing around the warming bench,and mad mick will buy some more panic buys come aug,looks like some more painful times to come.utw
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Teeswolf, clearly you know enough about football to realise we would be a better side if we had signed those three.The big danger for next season is arrogance,’we survived last season so we don’t need any new players’.I am sure you realise if Ridgewell had connected at that corner for the Blues before Spurs scored,we would have been down.Inches in it.If we had been relegated would that have made Doyle,Jarvis and Fletcher bad players?Of course not.Support the Wolves mate,not penny pinching Moxey.Anyway Jez is probably too busy to sign players right now,having to glue on all those badges onto the new replica shirts.
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wulfrun, The argument Mr Moxey, the “King of Excuses”, will make is that all clubs miss out on players.But you are right lack of ambition and poor judgement in the transfer market has dogged us for years.I think you are stretching it a bit with Besty.,nevertheless I can add a few more,we had Peter Reid in the dugout away at Norwich,but they would not pay the money,and John Barnwell once said he had a scout living in Boniek’s flat in Poland for a week and still they missed out on him.Stan Cullis beat us to Trevor Francis when he managed the Blues.We had Alan Ball on our books but let him go due to a dispute with Lancashire FA. Equally we nicked Jo Lescott off Derby and the same with John Richards.Clough evidently wanted him after an under 18 school England game,but John would not sign because he had verbally agreed to sign for the Wolves. John Richards a man of honour who should still be a Director at our club.
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58 agree with every word! But thats the problem with footall today – MONEY! Look at all those ‘top’ clubs, massive crowds with massive debts to go with them. As a club that wants to ‘live in the real world’ the actions should be applauded by the fans, cause ultimatly, who will pay towards the high wages? How? Gate money,sponsorship etc new kit, yep US!!Players in the 50′s were paid a pittance but still produced the goods!
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the 3Ms need to be clear about what they are prepared to pay both on transfer fees and personal terms before bidding for players like dann,gardner,johnson,upson etc. Gardner was already on better terms than we could afford when he went to brum.I accept that being a blues fan he was never gonna turn down the chance to play for them.
Its clear we cant afford to sign these calibre of player at the moment. This is no shame but lets not waste time and look elsewhere.
We are stuck between buying more halfords,maihoffer,edwards who cant play at this level and trying to sign a better quality of player and meeting their wages.
I keep saying we have to look abroad,and look for quality players on free transfers and loans where we could pay more.
115 teeswolf- just look at how few goals blues conceded with dann and johnson, thats why they are in demand.
Parker is an england international who got relegated along with upson,green and robbie keane at West Ham. So because they went down are you saying you wouldnt want to see any of these at molineux?
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@98 StaffsWolf – Sunderland have actually won 6 top flight titles as opposed to Wolves’ 3. But this is irrelevant as both teams havent won squat in decades.
What I will say, as a Sunderland fan following Wolves as my second team (Thanks to my dad) is that all these calls of Sunderland being in huge debt are slightly misguided.
We have bought big, but sold on big. 44 million brought in from the sale of 2 players, whilst Bent is a miss, Henderson was not even worth half his fee.
Perhaps it would be worth cashing in on Jarvises hype, like we did with Henderson and using the money to strengthen other positions. We may have lost 2 players but the income from their sale has allowed us to build a more balanced, stronger all round squad.
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