An alternative opinion on ‘linogate’
Tuesday 25th January 2011, 4:00PM GMT.
Wolves columnist John Lalley takes a deeper look at the storm that engulfed Molineux hero Andy Gray and Sky Sports’ Richard Keys after ‘linogate.’
On last Wednesday’s BBC quiz show ‘Eggheads’ one of the resident brain boxes was reluctantly corralled into answering questions on sport, her least favourite subject.
She was suitably flummoxed when presenter Jeremy Vine asked her, ‘which team promoted to the Premier League in 2009 play their home games at Molineux?’
The multiple choice format offered Birmingham City and Barnsley as the alternatives to the correct answer. After some characteristic dizzy dottiness, the egghead plumped for Birmingham as her answer.
‘illy woman,’ I muttered at the TV screen massively affronted that that she could possibly believe that such sporting heresy existed in the West Midlands.
‘No Judith,’ said Jeremy Vine, ‘it’s Wolverhampton Wanderers who were promoted to the Premier League in 2009.’ ‘ Is it?’ Judith replied, with an expression of total bewilderment. ‘ Are THEY in The Premier League?’
She appeared incredulous that Wolves are indeed in such an exalted station despite admitting that she knew little about sport and football in particular. I felt suitably put in my place, even though I was only conversing with the TV set.
Another lady caused quite a stir at Molineux on Saturday, although she certainly managed to answer her particular question perfectly correctly.
I think we were about 10 minutes into the Liverpool match before I noticed that Sian Massey was running the line. She isn’t the first female to officiate at Molineux, so the novelty value was limited.
Sitting in the Stan Cullis stand, it was impossible to discern if she had got the call right for the first goal, but a half-time walk to the concourse and a look at the TV screens proved that her decision was indeed legitimate.
I admit I felt relieved for her, which may in itself be an admission of inverted sexism but, anyway, had she made an error the goal would still have stood regardless, so I was pleased that she was spot on.
I can only speak for the section of the Cullis stand where my seat is located, but I heard not a single abusive comment sexist or otherwise directed at Massey.
She completed a thoroughly competent game and our defeat was entirely due to our own deficiencies, end of story, or at least that’s how it should have been.
I have lost count of the number of bungling officials I’ve seen at Molineux over the last five decades but, unless I am sadly misinformed, the eyesight of women is as equally proficient of that of the average male counterpart.
Contrary to what some of the species may believe, men do not inherit an infallible understanding of football with their genes.
Massey, just like every other official, will drop plenty of clangers if she stays in the game for any length of time because she is human, not because she is a woman.
The comments of the two Sky TV pundits were presumably their honest opinions and free speech surely extends to an analysis of the suitability of match officials.
But to make presumptions of incompetence and prejudicial judgements on the basis of gender is hardly going to win any prizes for reasoned objectivity.
Richard Keys strongly suggested that a controversial incident was inevitable simply because Massey is female.
In reality, the complete opposite occurred and if you take Keys’ illogical argument to its perverse conclusion, only male officials are capable of making mistakes because women have ineptitude stamped in their DNA. What a crass inversion of reality.
Andy Gray, Wolves hero, terrific player, interesting pundit, yes, all of these things, suggested that women do not understand the offside rule.
But, since the FIFA directive regarding players being rendered ‘active,’ I suspect most men have grave difficulties getting to grips with the rule too.
Not least Gray himself, who frequently interprets the rule by his own fancy rather than a strict adherence to the laws of the game.
His contemptuous dismissal of female officials and a thoroughly immature exchange of views with his colleague Andy Burton regarding Massey’s femininity caught on tape outside the player’s tunnel prior to an interview did nothing except make you cringe.
It was lamentable and viewing it again, he surely cannot be proud of himself.
Whether you view this as banter or bigotry is open to interpretation but, to me, the tone of the recordings was deeply unpleasant.
The comments were sharp, derogatory and patronising, leaving no room for compromise. There but for the grace of God or a stray microphone go all of us.
We all make unguarded comments at times – exaggerated, biased and bombastic opinions safe in the knowledge of the confidentiality of family and friends.
In retrospect during calmer moments, we often concede quickly to ourselves at least that much if not all of our dogmatic spouting has been wide of the mark.
But we are left only with our own personal embarrassment, thankful that a wider audience was not party to our prejudices.
Keys and Gray have been caught and shamed publicly, so both would be well advised to take the flak full on their chins and climb down unreservedly.
When the former Prime Minister Gordon Brown was recorded vilifying an elderly voter during last year’s election campaign, he sought to muddy the waters citing confusion and misrepresentation.
Brown simply could not bring himself to admit that he and he alone had fouled up big time. In consequence, the only person who was fooled was himself.
On Monday morning, the BBC went into overdrive on the subject – two lots of Radio 5 Live phone-ins and their television news service all piling into their Sky competitor with unbridled relish.
Broadcaster John Gaunt was wheeled out as the unlikely advocate for the defence and witlessly insisted it was all a joke, that women in general do themselves no favours throwing hissy fits over nothing.
Gaunt didn’t sound remotely convincing, which was probably the prime reason that the BBC invited his contribution in the first place.
Journalist Alison Rudd accused Keys and Gray of “ruining Massey’s career.” Asked to explain what she meant by this statement, she could not elucidate. Emotion was running high often at the expense of perspective.
Then, at 4.45pm, an MP came on Radio 5 to discuss the reduction of time allowed for the detention of terror suspects.
After this vital piece of legislation had been discussed, the presenter couldn’t resist asking the parliamentarian that whilst he was here, would he please give us his reflections on the conduct of Gray and Keys.
By this time the world was reeling, with the news of a terrorist atrocity at a Moscow airport that had cost 35 innocent people their lives.
Then this morning, I read an article by the veteran sports writer Sue Mott who quite reasonably did nothing to spare the blushes of Keys and Gray.
I found it difficult to disagree with anything she said, apart from claiming that the incidents took place prior to last Saturday’s match between Liverpool and wait for it, Wigan.
Cue Judith and Eggheads, yes it really is Wolves who play home matches at Molineux!
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Andy Gray “WOLVES HERO” ???
Anybody remember him getting sent off late in the season we went down? Was it Stoke? my memory fails me even though i was there. He repeatedly argued with the ref to the point it was obvious what was going to happen. We lost the game and got relegated – his whole performance was childish and petulant. Thats what i remember about Andy Gray – hero?? don’t think so. Petulant brat more like.
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Throw away comments by two blokes not meaning what they said. It’s just the sort of thing that blokes say to other blokes cos their wives aren’t around. What a fuss over nothing! But why oh why do some women feel they have to get involved with everything male? Can’t we be left alone for a one afternoon every fortnight?
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If I were Andy Gray (and thank God I’m not) I’d be very very embarrassed indeed….. Very well done to Miss Massey – she did brilliantly on Saturday. She got loads of stick from Wolves Fans around me for the Liverpool goal that looked offside – but they were all eating humble pie after seeing replays at half time. Hope Miss Massey is around for a long time to come and I REALLY hope I never see or hear Andy Gray ever again….. I’ve been a season ticket holder at Molineux for over 30 years and been going since I was 10, hence, I saw every one of Andy Grays games. Thanks for the memories Andy. And thanks for arranging a move to Everton for 1/26th of what we paid for you.
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JUST READ THAT HE’S BEEN SACKED…..
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Good article, agree with most of what you say, but, “Andy Gray Wolves Hero”? Never! Scored the winner in 80′ granted but not a Wolves Hero, not in my book.
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Good blog on the subject, and evryone should admit that those people not interested in football will not know the offside rule.
The quip about a woman not knowing is just that,as the majority of those least interested in the sport are women.
However these guys were talking about a qualified official and thats a different story.
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Good, considered, sensible article as ever, John. I was just disappointed that when our own Rachael Heyhoe Flint was interviewed by the BBC, she dismissed the comments as being made “tongue-in-cheek”. As you so rightly say, there was nothing in the tone of what was said to indicate that this was the case.
And, leaving the the ever changing off-side rule to one side, there’s plenty of further evidence to suggest that countless male football fans haven’t got the first clue about football. Just read these message boards…
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I agree with everything in this article. There was definitelyno need for those comments and if you get paid the big money then you really have to be careful with what you say.
I really don’t understand what all the big fuss is about. Keys rang up the lady in question and appologised and she excepted. If she can except it then I think that is all that matters.
At the end of the day it was two guys having a bit of a joke with one another just as mothers do about men outside the school gate and most men also do down the pub with there friends. I think this is something very similar. It’s not as if they ment to come out on air and tell women they had no place in football.
I was listening to a bit of radio2 in the office earlier where people were ringing into say that the pair should be sacked. This is just ridiculous and if those two should get sacked then so should the whole pannel of ‘loose women’ who constantly make jibes about how useless men are at everything!!
As for “ruining Massey’s career.” Football managers are constantly having ago about how useless some reff’s are, but this doesn’t ruin there career’s!
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As I said on another post, “how many men have an understanding of the present offside rule?”
What is arrogant and completely unforgiveable is the comment made by Gray ‘that he wouldn’t if he had the chance’. Does he really think that an attractive woman would look twice at him? She did get a difficult decision spot-on which is more than can be said for the ref at Blackburn with a certain penalty.
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Not really an alternate opinion is it. In fact it is pretty much the same opinion shared with most people that the two pundits were out of order. I for one hope they lose their jobs. Ron Atkinson lost his for a similar such outburst. Yes I know he was Racist but to me there is no room for racism, sexism or any other ‘…ism’ in the sport. What they said was not banter or jokes, it was a genuine insight to their views. Everyone has a right to be involved in the game whether it is playing, refereeing or supporting. Anyone who thinks otherwise makes me sick and I’m sorry but there is none of this ‘everyone is entitled to their own opinnion.’ Where this subject is concerened the bottom line is equality and a fair chance for all.
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It could be said that they were out of order for the comments,but come on are we not entitled to a point of view privately.The PC brigade will ruin this country for good with Fat Ct lawyers earning millions out of misplaced remarks.
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I cant see what all the fuss is about its not the linesman/woman who makes the call its which team or what player that makes the difference ie manchester united would get a penalty or an offside decision before any other side would.
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Apparently Andy Gray was about to sue NOTW re the phone hacking allegations. NOTW owned by one Mr. Murdoch. Now just remind me who owns BSB? STINKS!
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A lot over very little really, its there opinions and we live in a free country they tell us, is it really worth someone losing there job over, get over it…
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I here they have now been sacked for this.
What utter nonsense, ridiculous!!!
They are just 2 mates sharing an opinion to each other, as you point out John the coments were not made to be broadcast, they were unguarded.
The fact that this has hooged the headlines for the last 2 days, just shows how we as a nation have gone PC crazy.
And no, I’m certainly not sticking up for Andy Gray coz he’s an ex Wolves player.
For the record I thought the young lady had an excellent game by the way & this nonsense will do her no good at all, in fact it will just increase the media spotlight on her & increase the pressure she is already under, which again I feel is unfair on the girl.
The world has gone mad!!!!
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How can Sky sack Andy Gray? Is this the same organisation that has Soccerette and have you seen the female presenters on Sky Sports news? All attractive and blonde! I am angry about this…I will cancel my Skysports ( wolves always loose anyway)
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I was at the game on saturday with my mates, and we all made comments about the her, so hopefully i might get banned and wont have to suffer the the s**t that mcarthy turns out…Oh and by the way, i wouldn’t give her one either….championship here we come…
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Andy was never a Wolves hero, he just about managed to catch the ball up at Wembley after Needham pushed it past Shilton. Remember the “brushes with the law” when he owned the Zoo in Birmingham. The one good thing I remember is that he was actually going to be suspended for the Cup Final so we hastily rearranged a match against Villa in the preceeding week. Sent a side to Villa Park without him and won 3-1
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1 How did these off the record conversations get leaked and why? Any chance that it is merely coincidental that Gray is suing News Corporation and the man who owns large chunks of our media,wanted revenge.NO 13, as per your comment.
2 Manchester Wolf Yes I remember Andy Gray he scored the winner March2 1980,the last day we won anything worthwhile.
3 On a different subject,I note that members of the Jez Moxey Appreciation Society are peddling the story,before the Bolton game,that Mark Davies was poached by Chris Evans and that is why he now plays for the wrong Wanderers.But this is only part of the story.Jez let Mark’s contract run down.When questioned about this at the time Jez said Davies would resign because he is a lifelong Wolves fan.Jez got it wrong,he didn’t sign and one factor I am sure was that he did not feel wanted.Mick barely ever played him that last season when the player was fit.Davies was recalled from his loan spell at Leicester and according to the Express and Star checked him out closely during training.The paper at the time quoted Mick as saying he did not know what all the fuss was about ,and evidently did not rate him.When Davies stars against us and if he ever plays for England,let us not rewrite history.This is one that the club messed up big time.
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2- what an absolute idiot you are.
I am a woman
I go to wolves games
I am a season ticket holder
I enjoy football
I enjoy the atmosphere at the molineux on a match day
I love to see the boys celebrate a win and share in the commiseration when they lose.
Why should I not go to the match? Just because you want an afternoon without women around. You fool.
Are you Andy Gray in disguise?
It is my personal opinion, despite what I have just said that the two men were expressing their freedon of speech. They both said things that maybe 40% of the men at the game found themselves thinking.
I think suspension was justified and so too a public apology. But I think maybe sackings are going a little too far.
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From the Steve Bull halfway line, we couldn’t see, but, it certainly looked offside and there was a good deal of grumbling to that effect, but, I didn’t hear a single sexist shout. She was, of course, proved perfectly correct.
The comments made by the 3 Sky employees made you want to cringe. Could have been direct from a 1970s sit-com. Somebody at Sky definately had it in for them to release that off camera sweet talk.
Andy Gray was a average Wolves player (ie better before and after his stay with us. In the beginning he brought a fresh approach to televised football with his tactical knowledge. Smug Richard Keys, “I need no script”, and was a originally fine presenter. Will he go too ? Both past their sell by dates.
Jeff Stelling and Jamie Redknapp as the new dream team ?
…or what about a comeback for Big Ron and Rodney…they was never sexist !!
On another subject…Order those bricks
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20 – Are you married?
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Most of the MEN in the Molineux stands (and other grounds) don’t understand the offside rule. It’s been complicated by those fools at FIFA with all this first phase / second phase rubbish. How many times do you hear the uninformed shouting at the linesman because he can’t put his flag up until the ball’s landed ?
Bring back the old offside law…if your standing offside when the ball’s played your offside. No argument.
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Worcester, Andy Gray didnt leave Wolves when we went down, he stayed and got us back up. We were desparate for cash when we decided to sell him. Get your facts right before you start rewriting his time at Wolves. As far as the sacking go’s it would appear he is a bit of a bully, but surely in his 20 years at Sky they could have sorted it with a warning or two. If they havent had to warn him before then a suspension would have been fine. Compare and contrast with Jonathon Ross and Bland who were far worse.
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No20. Glad you like going to Mol. I have no problem with it. I do have a problem with the fairer sex demanding certain behaviour or so called standards at the game. It is a male environment and has been for the last 120 years. I don’t want to think about every chance remark I make for fear of upsetting someone. If you’re happy with the environment great but don’t try and inflict this sexism nonsense down our throats.
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SACKED!!I am taken aback by all this it’s nonsense…So what if waht they said was said in private….RIDICULOUS.
As for the lady official fair play she did a great job,pity we cant say this about linesmen!!Linesmen and referee’s get hammered for the constant errors,how many time have you heard tv pundits say that they are not clear on the offside rule!!!
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Totally agree with 20. It’s a sad world when people become wary of saying, in private, the wrong thing in case they cause offence. However, I sit in the North Bank and I did hear the comments ‘get back to the washing up love’. I could have taken offence, but then I thought about some of the things I mutter about male refs, so doing the washing up was quite mild in comparison. Sackings for those comments are too much, however, the stuff with Gray asking for a female colleague to stuff his mic down his trousers was well out of order.
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For all that say we are a championship side..
BLACPOOL 2 MANCHESTER UNITED 0!!!
BLACKPOOL they have a team of rejects and cast-offs and there record fee is about to be 1.5million!!!
MICKO as to go,as we have much better players on paper and have two strikers costing 13million!!!!YET GARY FLETCHER and DJ CAMPBELL HAVE DOUBLED THERE GOAL TALLYS!!!!
Explain please mick?
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Private conversation, nothing illegal.These two probably made Sky into the best World station for live football. They will be missed.
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andy gray getting sacked is ridiculous, people need to get some perspective here. the press and media go into overdrive and keep going and going and uncovering more titbits hoping that the hysteria gets the goal there after i.e sacking.
yes they keys/gray shouldn’t have said it, but for gods sake its blokes talking like in any pub or workplace, also the bit with gray and the reporter to my mind they were more taking the mickey out of the cameraman and again being boreish blokes.
as with the piece above it says there are more important things to worry about in the uk and the world.
the good thing was the girl did a good job, and does this not show talent male/female makes no odds within the FA.
i am all for equal rights but could you imagine if someone recorded your every word, would any of us not slip up at some point with something sexist or inapropiate.
i thought suspension and a proper apology would be suffice
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Why have women officials in a mans sport? Woulnt have a women in the boxing ring as ref? Women for womens sport, men for mens.
Sue me. I have been on the raz with Andy and he’s a great chap. So what, he made a jibe. Big deal.
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Number 20.
I totally agree with you.
I am also a woman,
I also go to all Wolves games at Molineux,
I am also season ticket holder in the Billy Wright Upper stand,
I also enjoy football,
I also enjoy the atmosphere at the Molineux on a match day,
I also love to see the boys celebrate a win and share in the commiseration when they lose.
My husband is also a Wolves supporter and sometimes – just sometimes – I love Wolves, more than I love him!!!
I definitely think that sack Andy, is going way too far.
In a man’s world, there is very little for some women to enjoy.
OK, I’m a tom-boy (even as I’m over 40), always have been and always will be. I don’t care what other people think of me – that’s their opinion – I say exactly what I think – and some men can’t some to cope with that.
One of my ‘higher managers’ is a Chelsea supporter and when they did the double over us last season, I didn’t hear the last of it from him. But when we beat Chelsea with that own-goal, the next morning I put my Wolves shirt on and thought to myself that I’m going to give as good as I got from him. He saw me walking around the office, but instead of saying congratulations on a good win – he totally avoided me.
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all the press talk and the media coverage since the game as taken away from the fact sian massey had a very good game far more competant than her male colleague.people are going to remember her for all the wrong reasons shame.but all this hype also masks the fact we preformed well below premiership standards once again then mick comes out and says no more signings the sqaud is good enough,even the most blinkered fans can see the sqaud is nowhere good enough no improvement on last year and in far more precarious position. mick wake up and smell the coffee
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She made a bad call afterwards, incorrectly giving Torres offside. But how many male linesmen don’t make mistakes? Having been to Wolves v Liverpool, I attended Stevenage v Rotherham last night and one of the linesmen was atrocious. I e-mailed Wolves to point out Gray’s comments within the stadium are in breach of point 14 of the ground regulations. No reply as yet.
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Unacceptable behaviour in the workplace. 3rd video offence would be instant dismissal in most places. Down to Sky’s employment policies set against current legislation at the end of the day.
It did look like Andy had been set up though.
The BBC coverage is lighter, wittier and generally more enjoyable than Sky’s manic over the top presentation, so no great loss.
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#35 Stafford DeWolf
In general I would agree with your view of how Sky may have acted in their dismissal of Andy Gray. But from my limited knowledge, most large companies have a disiplinary code whereby one offence will result in a verbal warning, a second offence a written warning and third dismissal.
It seems that Gray is now taking legal action regarding his dismissal. This may hinge on whether all three video’s constitute one offence and whether Sky’s internal discplinary proceedures have been followed correctly. Usually the person who has been subjected to discrimination would have made an official complaint before any action is taken. As far as I know there has not been a complaint raised by Sian Massey or the other female presenter.
Also why only one presenter was sacked and not the other.
I have no sympathy for Gray and Keys, but this story will go rumbling on for sometime yet, and it may well have implications outside football and the media.
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It’s just a load of PC nonsence from aload of people that have nothing else better to do than complain about trivial rubbish!! Several people have been killed in a russian airport but all people care about is having a winge about two guys who were having a guy’s chat too one another! Get a grip all the PC brigade!
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28) Wonderer in Air
Blackpool 2 Man Utd 3 !!!
What do I need to explain ?
We play United soon, come and support the team instead of trying to destroy the Spirit that we have. DH !
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#36 Albrightondek
It depends on Sky’s staff disciplinary policy/procedure? The videos are very good evidence of unacceptable behaviour, and could presumably trigger complaint from any employee of the company, not least Gray’s boss.
Whether warnings are issued depends on the seriousness of the breach of discipline as defined by the policy.
I agree that the unfairness could stem from Keys getting away with a suspension.
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All the information on Andy Gray although private was given to the media by Sky.Why would that be ?.Sky and The Sun both owned by News Corporation have concentrated more than anyone on this ridiculous story and rolled out their ‘expert sports columnists’to criticise Andy Gray.Whatever happened to free speech paricularly in private.I have now asked my local snooker hall to make a security check before I next play to ensure secrecy.News Corporation are trying to takeover BSkyB in its entirety – frightening.
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#39 Stafford Dewolf
The videos and recorded comments clearly will be central to any litigation. But they maybe used for both sides. Sky has a responsibility to prevent unauthorised broadcasts of private conversations without permission of the relevant personnel. They maybe in breach of this irrespective of it being leeked by persons unknown.
It will be an interesting case which may have implications for free speech, whistleblowing, sexism in the work place, etc. We’re certainly not going to resolve on this website.
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The ‘leak’ wouldn’t have anything to do Andy Gray being on a long contract @ £1.7m per year & Richard Keys will be on a similar deal???
And Sky now being the first choice for the UK public & perhaps feel that they no longer need 2 such high profile presenters on such high wages.
Just a thought.
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(41)
Albrightondek,
You know as well as I do, free speech is only free as long as it conforms with Government blessing. I believe free speech is no more than a feel good factor. Sorry to break away from football. JACK the HAT.
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just seen some old news footage of andy gray signing for wolves in 1980 and gray commenting how he would like to end is carreer at wolves how uncanny “”"”
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