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Smoker vows to fight over cigarette ash fine
Monday 16th August 2010, 11:30AM BST.
A pensioner from the Black Country has insisted she would rather go to jail than pay a fine after saying she was penalised for dropping cigarette ash on the floor.
Sheila Martin from Oldbury has refused to pay a £75 fixed penalty notice served by Sandwell Council for littering as she smoked while waiting for a bus.
The 70-year-old has been warned that she could be brought before the courts and face a fine of up to £2,500 and pay costs of the hearing against her.
But the widow of Hill Top Road says she does not believe she should have been ticketed and does not plan on paying any bill.
She was approached by a warden as she waited for the 446 bus in Bristnall Hall Road on May 26 this year and handed the penalty notice. The mother-of-two said: “I think it is disgusting. All I did was smoke a cigarette while waiting for the bus and some cigarette ash went on the floor. I didn’t drop any litter.
“It is one of the few things I can afford to buy. It is just wrong and I have no intention of paying a fine.I would rather go to prison.”
It is the latest occasion the council has come in for criticism for its tough approach to littering. A mother was fined for feeding the ducks with her young son in a Smethwick park last year.
But Vanessa Kelly’s £75 fine was eventually dropped along with similar penalties imposed on six other people in Smethwick Hall Park.
Councillor Derek Rowley, Sandwell’s neighbourhoods chief, said he was unable to comment on individual cases.
But he added: “In general terms, however, our wardens do not issue fixed penalty notices for dropping cigarette ash. They do for dropping cigarette butts which are specifically classed as litter under the Environmental Protection Act.
“The council takes a dim view of littering because the people of Sandwell tell us they want clean streets.”
The letter sent to Mrs Martin from the council states: “The fixed penalty notice scheme offers you the opportunity to discharge your liability to prosecution by making a fixed penalty payment.
“As full payment has not been received this matter has been referred to the prosecution team for consideration.”
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Mrs.Martin. The warden needs to have evidence in British Law. Does he have the ash or photographs of you actually depositing ash? Have you admitted to dropping ash? Is ash actually ‘litter’ as it surely vanishes quickly outside? I was wrongly accused of littering chewing gum with enough errors in the written accusation to prompt me to telephone the person in charge to point them out. He corrected them and then said he could now proceed with the prosecution, (which I never actually got). Fight them all the way if you can put up with the misery. The warden should be sacked. Instantly. Total idiot!
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easy to fine a pensioner than tackle the gypsies for the mess they leave whereever they go,the country is a joke always target the people they can scare half to death.
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Have to totally agree with you on this Eddy, she is undoubtably a easy target and makes there figures look good…
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I wholeheartedly agree! When they start fining gypsies for the mess and destruction they leave behind then i will agree with the counculs decision, until then don’t pay the fine fight it every inch of the way.
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Excuse me, but if you drop ANYTHING on the floor, then it is litter. Mrs Martin says she thinks it is disgusting, well, smoking is a disgusting habit and why should the ash be left for other people to clean up!!!!!!!!!!!!
WELL DONE THAT WARDEN!!
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This must have been written by a crabby old geezer from a sitcom. If this is not a joke then you really need to get over yourself. Good grief, it was a bit of ash for God’s sake!
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How wrong can someone be?
Well said Hanna, by the way.
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Smoke (and Hannah) then what about bonfires, garden fires, ash from chimneys etc.etc? It is not an enforceable fine by law, due to the defintion of ash, the warden was being over zealous and possibly as anti-smoking as yourselves.
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There is a slight difference betweeen chimney smoke/ash and deliberately dropping ash onto the ground – don’t you think that old ends from cigarettes look a disgrace lying all over the place – or perhaps you are used to it?
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Where does it mention she dropped the cigarette butt? Please don’t ever serve on a jury.
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There are a number of laws that govern illegal smoke emissions, illegal burning etc, which too will be enforced by the council. I dare say the council would take enforcement action for such matters if deemed necessary.
The warden must have had evidence of littering before issuing the fixed penalty notice for littering. If the lady feels she hasn’t done anything wrong i.e. hasn’t littered then she should not pay the fine and should give her side of things in court and let them decide.
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Smoke, I bet that you are one of the same old left wing nambypamby PC brigade who protest about anything that true BRITISH people want to do with THEIR lives.I doubt that you have enjoyed a day of your sad life without having a winge at something that somebody else has done!If you must have a go at something let it be of real relevance.
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You sound like a born again non-smoker.
This lady probably has few enjoyments in life and smoking is one of them. If it was a cigarette butt which takes a long time to degrade then that’s a different story.
When did you last see huge drifts of cigarette ash piled against kerbs, walls etc? It just disappears !
These wardens are giving out tickets to generate revenue for cash strapped local authorities without even the slightest hint of evidence. Stand up against them, have your day in court and put a stop to this stupidity.
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Don’t you know sir that ash blows away therefore no one will be cleaning it up!!!!
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well said, smokers think they are exempt from littering laws dropping ash and ciggie buts everywhere. I have nothing againsty smokers and if they want to smoke then do it at home. you cant walk past a shop or pub doorway without having to walk through a fog of smoke and tiptoeing through ash and butts if you can’t do the time … etc etc etc
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I hope that Sandhell Council will be issuing hairnets to all its staff as by their definition any stray hairs that they may lose in the course of a day are also litter.
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It’s the easy option again, as per normal.
The travellers leave sites they should not be on in a terrible state.
What do the council or the state do about it?
Absolutely nothing, arguing they have ”no fixed address”
Yes, what the pensioner has done is wrong technically and I don’t condone it BUT stop taking the easy pickings and do your jobs.
How much does it cost the city to clean up after the travellers leave a site in such a mess? Thousands of £’s and what do the police and councils do. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
Makes yer proud to be british don’t it.
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Littering is littering. Lots of people get fined what people dislike the most is the fact that they got caught. Don’t litter and you wont get fined, easy!
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Quote Derek Rowley: “wardens do not issue fixed penalty notices for dropping cigarette ash.”
If it’s not classified as littering, then why was she fined £75 for it? The legality of funding such practices through penalty fines is I feel brought into question.
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Thats ok Hanna if eveyone is on the same playing field, but they are not.. “travellers ” get away with costing the tax payer £1000s. Where are these wardens when a proper job needs doing ??
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How can you define cigarette ASH as litter? Can you pick it up as evidence? Is it clearly located on the floor? Adolf Hitler began like this, no evidence needed, just one of his SS to point an accusing finger. You sound like you approve of that.
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““The council takes a dim view of littering because the people of Sandwell tell us they want clean streets.”
THAT ALSO INCLUDES BUREAUCRACY. But please, continue, since you’re talking about what the people of Sandwell want..how about police stations serving their communities by STAYING OPEN? How about catching and reprimanding the vile filth committing real crime? How about EU subsidies..corporate fraud..one world governments run by private, corporate interests (like the American Federal Reserve system). Better not talk about that ‘mess’, eh..there’s a pensioner enjoying a cigarette on an English street!
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What i want to know is where the butt ended up? In my experience the butt mostly ends up on the floor. Take a look at any bus stop and there will be loads on the floor.
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This is disgusting , what happens when people have a fire and the ash goes up in the air and lands somewhere ? Does that mean that bonfire night no fireworks can be let off in case they get fined? I rent a unit in walsall and have complained about the rubbish from weekend litterers to walsall council and they couldn’t be less interested , council workers get a life !
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Quite clearly she’s dropped her cigarette on the floor and got caught so now she’d kicking up a big fuss saying it was just the ash and going to the paper to see if the council will give in and retract the fine.
I’m sick of smokers walking around still thinking they have the right to smoke anywhere and that they can throw the butts on the floor afterwards. They are the ones who have let themselves get addicted and so they now have to put up with the inconvenience of standing in the cold and taking the butts home with them.
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you must have a sad life if you are sick of smokers thinking they have a right to smoke anywhere get a life theres a lot more to worry about than this
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Jack, we’re talking about ash, not butts. And people have a right to smoke..after all, it’s not like she was smoking in a confined space. This isn’t about whether people dislike smokers – this is about a woman being fined for allegedly dropping ash, something our own council doesn’t seem to classify as dropping litter. If I were her I’d tell them what to do with their ‘pay up to avoid any [ambiguous]litigation’ propoganda.
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What a stupid warden you could not make this up.I hope the wardens have issued tickets to Iceland [the country] for all the ash that was deposited over Britain i feel sure the fines will get it out of the financial mess it is in.
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I agree with comment 10 Jack.
Littering is a disgrace, especially cigarette butts. Why was this woman smoking in a bus shelter anyway? Smokers seem to think they are above the law.
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Well said – you are certainly right there.
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The world consists of two types of people,
The Righteous and The Unrighteous.
The judging is always done by The Righteous.
Easy to categorise The Righteous replies here because they’re all sitting in their ivory towers.
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Obviously not a religious man then?
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Sarcastic too? how original, not!
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On the telly she said she can’t afford the fine….but she can afford £6.00 for fags ?
On the telly she said it caused her to have an asthma attack….and she smokes ???
I live in West Brom and I am sick and tired of all the rubbish, cig butts, litter etc….IT’S A DUMP ! …..Sandwell council should be applauded for making a stand against the rubbish
WELL DONE SANDWELL……Now follow yer bin men when they empty our bins and leave half of it in the road !
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Swifty, she DIDN’T drop the butt, only ash.
Don’t change the charge against her until you win. If you are right about your binmen, then photograph them doing it and publicise it or take the Council to Court. I’m not a fan of some of Walsall Council, but our binmen are the bees-knees, the cat’s whiskers, brilliant in fact.
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Swifty – how right you are. I read on the news that the government is thinking of abolishing free nhs care for smokers and overweight people. Hurray on that one – perhaps people will start to help themselves in future. I am overweight and quite honestly, I would sooner lose weight myself before expecting taxpayers to pay for any healthcare caused by my own negligance.
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if you are overweight why dont you lose some now then if they refuse treatment can the such persons refuse to pay their ni contributions then and pay into a private scheme
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smoke, how can you say that smokers and fat people can’t be treated on the NHS, I’m a smoker and I have never used the NHS as an adult, I have worked and paid a lot of tax in the 23 years since I left school, so if in years to come I need treatment for smoking related illness then I think I’ve more than paid for it, but I would be more than happy to abolish the NHS and everyone has to pay for private medical insurance, that will never happen though will it. As for the point in question, tab ash is not littering its bio degradable, if she dropped a tab butt then fair enough, I don’t ever drop mine I put the tab out and bin it, even if I have to hold on to it until I find a bin.
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Hey – don’t shoot the messenger. I haven’t proposed the scheme – it was reported on BBC News – get your facts straight eh?
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smoke, facts straight? you obviously support the idea that tabbers and fatties should be penalised for their lifestyles, well thank god muppets like you don’t run this country eh, you would probably charge people for breathing, get a life you loser.
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Woe is me….. get a grip!
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Are we actually sure this lady has been fined for dropping ash? We only have her word for this. As another poster mentioned, did she extinguish the butt and then put it in her pocket to place in the bin when she got home?
Before placing judgement on the council I think we need to see what is said when this goes to court. The council official did say afterall people are not fined for dropping ash.
So let’s stand down and await the court case which hopefully the Express and Star will be covering.
Paul
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I agree with #15. Certain poster on here are finding the lady guilty purely because she smokes.
If it is found that the fine was for ash only the the fine should be removed. If, however, the lady was fined for littering with a cigarette butt then that would warrant a warning at the very least.
To ensure a fair “playing field” should such a fine be imposed for dropping a cigarette butt, then the same fine should be imposed for those who spit chewing gum. There is nothing worse than treading on the damn stuff, it is worse than cigarette butts in my book.
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I take it that there won’t be any fireworks allowed on November 5th in the Sandwell area then?!!!!!
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Let’s hope not.
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Smoke, you really are a miserable so and so…..
Go and get out a little more, put a smile on your face and stop eating so many cakes and biscuits because you are unhappy.
People will continue to smoke, laugh, drink, have fireworks and bonfires, meet for meals and generally be happy. Maybe you should join them?
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Actually, I couldn’t live a more fulfilled life which I cherish as should everyone. Don’t people get wound up easily – you really shouldn’t believe everything that is put on these messages lol?
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Fireworks are a menace anyway, especially if you own pets.
Coming back from work to find somebody has been letting fireworks off in the day and your dogs are cowering in the corner is not how I recall 5th Nov being spent.
I agree with the posters however saying that this isn’t so clear cut a case. Ash is not fineable. Butt-ends are.
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Obviously this one has the anti-everything loonies out in force.Perhaps this lady should be stoned to death? I mean fag ash blown about in the wind,makes an awful mess doesnt it? She may have caused a ladybird to have a headache or something.
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Smoke…Take a long hard look at the mess this country is in & tell me you like what you see , because I don’t , & the blame is entirely down to the likes of you and the other do gooders. No. punishment in schools not able to correct your own kids at home, almost non existent sentencing from the courts leading to gangs of mindless morons ruling the streets, and what do you worry about ? Some old lady dropping ash on the floor..as for your views about the n.h.s I just hope some overweight doctor who smokes never has to treat you.
If I were you I’d put on.your rose tinted specs & hide yourself away on a deserted island because you dont belong in the real world.
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I’m surprised Sandwell wardens management team have not yet come forward to confirm if the fine was issued for a dropped cig butt, they need to confirm what the officer witnessed. If it was just ash then it wasn’t sensible to issue the fine. At the moment we’ve heard only one side of this situation and as it’s already spiralled to silly levels of opinions we need to know what was reported to have been seen by the officer, simple as.
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There is no excuse for this kind of official jackboot reaction over cigarette ash, which is not litter, but recycled carbon.
The attempted intimidation of a person accused of an offence, by threats of severe financial penalties, should they dare to excerise their right to defend themselves in court, is a criminal offence,banned under The Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
Why are Sandwell Council employing ‘Litter wardens, instead of litter removers, or is it a case that they have Council Tax revenue to burn?
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I do feel sorry for the elderly lady, but it has to be said, there is something seriously wrong with smokers. Not content with smoking in their own home, for which I have no objection, why do they think its OK to leave their revolting, noisome litter wherever they go? There isn’t a pub doorway nor any public space that isn’t knee deep in fag ends.
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will these wardens be doing the same to bin men who drop litter whilest doing their rounds ??
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Smoke
August 16, 2010 at 12:42 pm
Excuse me, but if you drop ANYTHING on the floor, then it is litter. Mrs Martin says she thinks it is disgusting, well, smoking is a disgusting habit and why should the ash be left for other people to clean up!!!!!!!!!!!!
WELL DONE THAT WARDEN!!
what a load of old tosh! so if i picked up a rotting leaf off the floor and dropped it again i would be littering? are you just as much a jobsworth as the daft warden that decided to fint his lady for something as ridiculous as that? and as for fag ends lying all over the place, maybe the council should offer bins to put them in instead of bins that your not allowed to place your hot ashes! wake up and smell the coffee idiot!
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and i think you’ll find the NHS has to deal with more drunks than smoking related illness’s, arent we all glad that somebody called smoke who doesnt like smoking has no say in what happens in this country! do gooders are whats wrong with this country!
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WELL DONE SANDWELL COUNCIL !!!
I was in West Brom yesterday and my god what a mess…it’s a right DUMP.
I don’t know if it’s because of this story that I have noticed it more but I have never seen so many ciggy butts.
Lets pull no punches here….she threw the butt on the ground, she was asked if she threw it on the floor by the warden and she said “YES I threw the butt on the floor”….she said so on the telly….It wasn’t until she realise that she would be fined then she changed her story and started to bleat on about not being able to afford the fine and that the stress bought on an asthma attack….what a load of old GUFF
To me, Ciggy Butts thrown on the floor is the same as spitting….both are filthy, dirty, rotten habbits which everyone has to suffer
So YES, throw the book at her and if I was in charge I would DOUBLE the fine
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Ah, so it was a butt end then?
Serves her right then and more power to the warden who actually asked her whether she did it or not.
Trying to con her way out of a fine and telling the media it was just ash…piffle.
Keep digging that hole there lady, keep digging!
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No wonder the Labour Government managed to turn this country into a police state – mindless idiots like you supporting control freaks who run round picking on old lasies for nothing.
But then, I guess judging other people is easier than looking at your own life and looking at ways you could CONTRIBUTE to making life better, huh?
No – don’t do that. Just be nasty, nasty, nasty to everyone else until ludicrous things like this happen.
I utterly despise of people like you, who do not think through the consequences of encouraging a nasty, pernicious police state.
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Smokers should be fined even more, I’m so tired of smelling second hand dirt from smokers. It’s everywhere !
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Withdraw the fine immediately and impose a more suitable penalty…make her watch two Albion home games
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I bet if a warden saw a six foot 15 stone bloke drop a fag but they wouldn’t do anything about it.
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