Jarrod,

Interesting blog.

A point on the finances though; we’ve been in a similar net debt position for a number of years, the only difference this year it would seem, is that it’s been portrayed differently in the media. In some ways I don’t think this is a bad thing as it may stop the likes of Streetly asking questions like “Where’s the money gone?”, as people begin to realise there isn’t any surplus of funds to splash around on players.

Yes, the player amortisation issue is cloudy, as it’s effectively a cautious estimation of net realisable value, but this is accounting standard, suggesting JP’s done this to fool us all is unfair, every club and company in the UK adheres to the same accounting standards.

Two ACTUAL P+L figures (not estimates) I think we should all take note of:

Turnover (in the Prem) £47m
Wages and Salaries £31m (this is for the year and not the £33m for the remainder of players’ contracts should we stay in the Championship).
That leaves £16m for every other expense the club has plus transfer fees.

So, next time anybody asks “Where’s the £60m we get for going up?”……quite simply, there aint a £60m, and what we do get, is largely eaten up by salaries (as that’s where the money in football goes these days!!).

I’m not sure where you think we should find this money to spend on new players, but we’ve spent more in the last couple of years than all our competitors for promotion (Newcastle aside).

Do we really need an overhaul? We’re in a better position than we were 2 years ago, with Miller and Morrison to return, and 2 weeks ago we were all smiling. 7 points from the next 3 games, we’ll all be smiling again!! Come on you Baggies!!

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Looking at the responses to the club’s release of the current financial situation I would ask you to post your thoughts as to WHY the Chairman has allowed such a “complex” report to be released. Let’s face it, he must have a motive because he is successful at what he does best which is making money. Is it a marketing exercise??? If so, for whose benefit?

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We,ll be loaded when we flog GD for 15million,aye boing boing loads a money

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You admit Jarrod that you are not a financial expert and I think your comments regarding the club’s monetary position show this. By including every liability present and future that you can you can to some extent reduce the tax liability. In the same way the loan/transfer arrangement for Jonathan Greening’s move to Fulham is prime example of reducing the club’s immediate tax liability but not understood by many supporters. If you look Jarrod at the balance sheets from 2007 of some of our major banks you will see that at that time they looked extremely healthy but 12 months on they needed to be kept afloat. You cannot always assess the health of a company from it’s accounts. Instead look at the assets both on and off the pitch which are considerable. Like Phil Bateman I do not believe that it would be in the club’s interest for a takeover to take place by an individual who may have ulterior motives for an acquisition. Jeremy Peace has been a brilliant chairman for the club taking into account the state it was in when he took over the chairmanship and I for one hope that he stays at the helm. We know that he is seeking outside investment but hopefully not overall control. Finally Jarrod please don’t take this as criticism of your blog but you are meddling in matters which are difficult to understand. Best confine your comments to football issues which are generally smack on.

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These figures are very cloudy…I will put it this way. If you buy a 300K house and put down your 10% Deposit. Does this mean you are 270K in debt?
The depreciation/appreciation of playing staff is considerably played down to a “worst case scenario” I should imagine that much of this debt is long term and as it stands we are very much sustainable.

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Good blog Jarrod

Whatever peoples opinions are, Im glad the clubs finances are starting turn a few heads… other than just the regular fans.

I also admitt I am no finance expert, I dont have all the inside info nor all the answers to our financial issues… and I neither should I have all the answers.

We are just fans and it is not down to us to have all the answers, so when the Pro-Peace brigade dish out the usual response of:

‘So what is the alternative to Peace’

or

‘What is your big idea on how the club should be run??’

Anyone can ask us that. Thats the easy answer! Its because we have no answer. Because we are Only fans and not financial experts. Its not our job to have all the answers or work out how the club is run. Thats what they get payed for!

However we are not naive enough to be blissfuly unaware that there is a serious possibility that JP is as you put it…. Pulling the wool over our eyes

We all know these days football clubs are nothing more than businesses. And businesses have ways of manipulating, exaggurating, and disguising facts and figures to cover themselves. Using business jargen and tactics to their advantage.
And I think the clubs financial report was a perfect example of that. It had plenty of aspects of this.

I doubt all those amounts add up exactly right, and some truths will have been stretched. But I dont pretend to be an expert on all this. And anyone that does is kidding themselves.

I.E 2 – Warren

Just reitterating JP’s report!

Sorry Warren I do respect you, bully hoo etc but its not all rosie with Mr Peace as you make out.

And lets not forget the rose tinted Pro-Peace brigade have constantly said, we will never be in debt…
Yet here we are and apparantley we are…

I guess their maths didnt quite add up before did it??

You tell the writer of this blog he is no expert, but with respect. He is writing this blog and getting payed for it.

Well JP lovers you all asked for an argument with substance to back up why JP might not be the man for the job and here it is… Even the E&S are suspicious of the way this club is being run.
And now even neutral financial experts have called this report “complex”

Like I say, they have ways to manipulate facts & figures. The report is suspicious. Simple as that.

I have praised Peace before and you gotta respect him in a weird way, but he is not the person to take us forward as a club or establish us in the premiership. We give him a fresh start every time we get promoted and kid ourselves it will be different. But the sad truth it never is

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Jarrod,

“Dubious” is a very interesting word, though I’m not sure that labelling our accounts as “dubious”, was a helpful description.

“Prudence” is a much better word, and one that all good accountants will tell you, it should apply to all Financial Statements when drawn up.

Whether we like or not Mr Peace, that’s not the issue.

We know that he is by nature conservative, so we ought to now naturally expect him to construct Accounts and his dealings in the same, “Prudent”, way.

Leopards cannot their change spots as they say, and this is the Mr. Peace that we’ve consistently come to know.

Talking of Leopards, the word “Dubious” did come to mind as I watched MM explain his choice of team for the Manu game. Did you see that?

So Jarrod, if you still remain uncertain or harbour any doubts about how to read numbers and statistics, go over to the darker side, and have a word with MM.

Clearly he is thinker, who always puts a shift in, and when it comes down to numbers, he always gets, 10 out of 10 …

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Danobaggs

I made the point re: turnover and wages (reiterating JP’s report as you put it) as the average football supporter seems to believe Premiership football carries an immediate £60m windfall, which just isn’t the case.

Posters like 11-Baggietastic are getting lost in the idea that amortisation of players is a big smokescreen pulled by JP for tax purposes….

a) amortisation/depreciation is not taxable as it’s an estimate; and
b) our accounts are prepared using the same accounting standards as every other limited company in the UK…and are audited independently.

I don’t profess to be an expert- I’d say JP is probably a far more intelligent man than I- but I am an accountant (albeit newly qualified), so I do have some understanding.

JP’s been very clever with his words, I don’t deny this, but it doesn’t detract from the fact that any money spent would be based on future earnings, which is a policy which gets clubs into trouble (Pompey, Newcastle….probably Hull).

NEVER have I, or the rest of the Pro-Peace brigade to my knowledge, ever denied that we were in debt. To the contrary, I’ve spent the last year telling the “Where’s the money?” brigade that we were slightly in debt. But if you compare that debt to the teams competing around us, I’d say it’s quite remarkable where we are.

I completely respect your posts and opinions, but the simple facts are, unless we spend money that aint there, we’ll never be able to compete with clubs that spend beyond their means i.e. almost every team in the Premiership.

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