Time to map out a plan for Villa's future
- Says blogger Matthew Turvey
Hilltop’s good and bad of the cup
Tuesday 1st December 2009, 9:10AM GMT.
Guest Albion blogger Pete ‘Hilltop Baggie’ Danckert has seen the good and bad aspects of a cup run for the Baggies in the past with the team firing on all cylinders.
After another thrilling weekend in the Championship, we now not only look forward to another away game next weekend at Derby. Also, after Sunday’s FA Cup draw, we now know our first opponents in the cup as a trip to League One Huddersfield lies in wait.
That brings us round to the ever re-occurring question – Do we want a cup run, or do we concentrate promotion?
Our previous manager Tony Mowbray was adamant that a cup run would not damage our season at all and – whilst it was great to watch including another trip to the new Wembley – we never seemed to put that run of results together until we were out of the cup, eventually sealing the champions spot and promotion.
Hypothetical I know, but what if the hand-balled goal for Portsmouth had been disallowed, if Zoltan Gera’s rising shot had gone in, or Ishmael Miller’s close shot had found the target and we found ourselves in the FA Cup final? Would it have distracted us? Would it have cost us promotion that season?
As I said, hypothetical, but enough that there’s a niggling doubt at the back of my mind that says, I don’t mind if we find ourselves out of the cup, lets keep our heads down and get where we all want to be.
Then you throw in the fact that its Huddersfield and, with due respect, we will be expected to win the tie. So, if you were head coach Roberto Di Matteo, what would you do. Put a full squad out? Play some fringe players?
Perhaps we should just treat it as a normal game and see if we pull a Premier League side next round, then we can see if we have progressed against the top flight.
The other problem on the horizon, all be it a nice one, is what do we do with the returning injured players, most notably Ishmael Miller. A few weeks ago I had no doubts as to throwing him in as soon as he was ready, but I didn’t allow for Simon Cox finding his feet since then, or did I allow for Luke Moore suddenly finding his game and role in our squad.
Both players look very confident at the moment, with Moore really showing us just how talented a footballer he is, and Cox looks to me to be a young Kevin Phillips in the making. Not only does he posses natural poaching skills, but his link-up play and movement off the ball are reminiscent of one of our recent terrace heroes.
A nice problem I know, but none the less one that will cause RDM a few sleepless nights.
Thanks to Bomber for letting me loose on the keyboard again, as I look forward to my pre match drink and conversation with all my fellow Baggies at Derby on Saturday.
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What an interesting point you make Pete, and one that hadn’t occured to me. My thoughts had been that we go into cup games trying to win them but not being exactly heartbroken if we lose. I remember TM’s attitude was that winning is a good habit which I agreed with but not at the expense of league form. I think i’m with you, let’s get our priorities right and if that means resting key players for cup games, so be it.
Just been to have a look at the Wulfies site. I know, it’s a bit like a trip to Bedlam in olden days and I’m not proud of myself but it’s still very funny to watch.
After the 329 comments on Sunday’s ‘match’ there are 161 comments on the latest article but guess what? Nothing from Lord Haw Haw, Laughing Wolf (one for Cyril there.) In fact his last post was at 11.58 on Monday and then the best he could muster was to ask a Baggies fan where our sponsor was, I don’t suppose he could mention crowd size as they had 3,000 empty seats for a local derby. Come on Shadrag, we might slag you off but you’re like piles, noticeable by your absence.
Amazing how similar some posts on the Wolves site are to last year on here. Why don’t the board throw more money at bringing in PL players, conveniantly ignoring the fact that they won’t come to a club new to the Prem.
Also a great number of posts calling for the return of Andy Keogh and Stephen Ward, both of whom have been villified for the past eighteen months as useless. Again let’s hope some of our own fans can learn from this before writing players off DLB.
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Hiya pete.
I think a club like ours has got to welcome the cup competitions – its a different pressure to the league and may actually be good for the players.
I also think its good for some fringe players to get a game and show the manager what they can do.
We were one game away from the FA cup final – many teams (inc regular prem teams) never get anywhere near that – I think it lifted the club at the time and I didn’t see any detrimental effects on the league.
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It saddens me to say this, being somewhat of a traditionalist who remembers 1968, but I don`t care for the FA cup given our current position. Any hope of staying up last season was lost when Tomo played 3 strikers in the “nothing” replay at Burnley, knowing full well that we would be facing Arsenal next round if we won. Simpson, who had looked half decent until then, got injured never to be the same again and our fate was sealed. I would give some of our fringe players a chance to see if they are as good as they think they are.
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I still don’t buy into this Luke Moore is “playing well”. Yes, he is doing better but I still think when you see the work rate of the likes of Cox and Bednar, he still isn’t doing enough and at the same time isn’t scoring goals either.
I think he is kidding a lot of fans due to the fact he is working slightly harder than he was, which isn’t exactly difficult !
Anyway, that’s my only moan as an albion fan at the minute. Roll on Derby !
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This is probably the worst tie we could have had; Huddersfield are a team similar to ourselves – playing open, attacking, attractive football with a strong home record. It will come at the end of a gruelling Xmas spell too. RDM will be caught between a rock and a hard place – play tired players or risk losing to a lower league team and extra cash for new players.
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It’s a really interesting debate.
In modern football, to be anything, you have to be in the Premiership, and therein lies what most of us see as our main priority.
But I remember when we reached that semi-final two years ago, I could barely sleep and was shaking with excitement. Winning the FA Cup is something many will never experience (unfortunately I was -13 in 1968)…. that would surely eclipse aiming for, say, mid-table medicority in the Premiership? Suffice to say, offered promotion or the FA Cup, I know which one I’d take.
That said, the 2007-08 was a freak FA Cup. If we take out Pompey’s win that year, I believe that only Everton outside the top 4 have won it since 1991, so is it a realistic target? I think we have to get the balance right.
Hypothetical as it may be, that’s a corker of a question about whether we’d have made it up, with an FA Cup final appearance on the horizon!! I seem to recall us picking up crucial wins at Bloomfield Road and Molineux within a week of losing the semi-final.
Personally, I think RDM could use it as an opportunity to use the likes of Koren, Bednar, Cech, and any returning players, which wouldn’t necessarily seriously weaken us, but would give the likes of Dorrans and Jara a rest (especially still being so young), and it might persuade some of the squad players to see through the season with the January vultures lurking.
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Nice Blog mate, and thanks for doing it.
To answer the question, i like winning, and i have always believed that it can become a habit. Our squad is large enough to handle a cup run and i hope we get one. Going back to the semi final, i was aksed on numerous occassions whether i would rather us win promotion or the FA Cup and i always answer the cup. Promotions/relegations come and go, but winning the cup remains in history forever.
Re Ish Miller, nice problem to have, however as RDM has shown with Bednar, unless you are 100% fit you wont get a look in. Ease him back gently, and his progress towards a return (plus Bednar) may just be keeping Cox and Moore on their toes???
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Good blog Pete. Interesting topic. I actually spoke with Jonno on that topic at a sponsors dinner the night after we got promoted against S’hampton, not long after the Portsmouth game. His view was it was nice to play but he felt that had there been a Wembley final looming, there was bound to be a psychological effect when going into tackles – so might have been bad for promotion. We didn’t actually have a hard game in that cup run, so it didn’t really take its toll. My view is that we should get the job done at Huddersfield, just to give us the chance to face a Prem team, and so we can hope for a game against wolves. How great would that be, beeting them when they’re in the Prem! Fantastic.
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Back in the days before anyone had invented the so-called ‘squad’ system and substitutes, players who couldn’t get in the 1st team played for ‘The Stiffs’ as they were known and that was every week in The Central League. We always went for success in anything we entered, the crowds would never have tolerated the team not giving everything to win. Only one team has been promoted and won the FA Cup. I had high hopes we would repeat that a couple of years back and we might have but for cheating and a dumb ref. Go for it, always, is my approach and let the Devil take the hindmost!
I have had a look at The Wulfies site and in all honesty, I feel for them. But I don’t think winning the Championship makes them less likely to stay up. Burnley and Blues are doing well right now but I would point out that Hull City were 5th this time last year. There’s a way to go yet and two wins changes much. If they beat Bolton and Burnley the whole mood will change on there and they’ll be back to insulting us, (which is as it should be), winning the FA Cup, the European Championship, The Boat Race, The Derby and The Grand National! Stay there Wulfies, we’re coming to get yer next season.
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Nice work Pete.
As a fan whose Baggie supporting days began in the 60`s, i was effectively bought up on cup competitions, and the winning of one was a genuine possibility.
I, like all other fans thought that those days were gone………..until two seasons ago.
Yes, we had the of luck with the draw, unfortunately it ran in the semi final, but for me it remains proof positive that a team not in the upper echelons CAN win a knockout competition……lets try.
Would i sacrifice premier status for a cup ?
It`s a que-sera situation as far as i`m concerned, and lets be honest, the premiership has been a cruel and unforgiving mistress to us.
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Whoops, a few typos on there, i`ll blame watching the New England Patriots not finishing the game until 4.40 this morning.
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Pete,
Good Blog Sir, thanks, and I’m strongly behind us for both.
We don’t lay claim to be the biggest club, nor the richest club, nor the best club, maybe.
That said, we can play a little, we can show spirit, and we know that progress in the cup brings in trea$ures$, both in financial & fan base terms.
So for clubs like us (and we are the many, not the few), a good cup run can be like Viagra through the veins (so I’m told :-).
Let’s go for it, and as Baggietastic imagines, how nice a derby with our friends, the Stiffs from Staffs might be …
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can’t believe the E&S missed the opportunity to call this piece “good cup Bad cup”….. or is it me.
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Just another thought…..
During that cup run in 2007-08, we took 4,000 fans to Peterborough in R4, then 6,000 to Coventry in R5.
So far this season, we’ve taken 1,500 to Peterborough (albeit midweek) and 4,000 to Coventry, so it would seem the romance of the FA Cup still excites us fans!!
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13 Happy.
Bet they wish they had thought of it. Brilliant.
14 Warren.
Not sure, but isn’t the ticket allocation different and the P’Boro game was a Tuesday night game, which makes a difference.
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Bully,
You’re right I think, in that the home team are required to give a larger allocation of tickets (25% or a fair amount deemed safe I think), but we still had tickets for Coventry on the morning of the game this year.
It just struck me that some of the FA Cup ties over the years have attracted a decent crowd once we’d got past the earlier rounds (I remember Cheltenham at home being sold out in the 2002 5th round). Perhaps I’m romanticising and that’s not always strictly true, but I’d certainly give my left arm to see an FA Cup win like some of you lot have!!
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