Binmen threat over pay deal
Monday 22nd June 2009, 4:11PM BST.
Binmen are threatening to leave rubbish uncollected on the streets of Sandwell after claiming they face losing more than £5,000 a year in an equal pay shake-up.
Workers say they will lose £5,435 a year when the council’s new single status agreement comes into force.
They are now considering industrial action and working to rule – doing no more than the minimum required.
Sandwell Council has approved plans for a £4.1 million wage shake-up, which will give around 5,000 staff a wage increase.
Refuse workers are expected to be among the 1,400 people set to lose out when the new pay scales are made public on July 1.
In a letter to the Express & Star, the binmen have apologised to the people of Sandwell, but say they have no choice.
They say if they cannot complete collections within the set hours, rubbish will be left on the streets.
Work to rule would also mean refuse workers would not collect in the rain, and would return the whole crew to the Oldbury depot for toilet breaks.
All lunch and other breaks would be strictly adhered to, even if backlogs of rubbish built up.
The letter, signed ‘Sandwell Binmen”, reads: “We just cannot lose that sort of money and have our homes and families under threat.
“We are living in a nightmare. We all bought or rented homes on the salaries we have been on for years.”
At the depot in Shidas Lane today, a worker said: “These are management regulations for the way the rounds are meant to be done.
“It would take four times as long, and the collections would never get finished.”
Councillor Mahboob Hussain, neighbourhoods chief, said: “We’ve been told that working to rule is something that they might do, but nothing official has been said yet.”
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Why should residents care that some workers were foolish enough to take out loans based on expectations of income?
If someone is renting a house at a certain rent, and then has to take a job cut then…. why don’t they just rent a cheaper place? Why should that be my concern?
If I lost my job, I wouldn’t expect anyone else to care, and I would use my savings to cover my expenses whilst I found a different job. That’s basic common sense and there’s no reason why anyone else can’t do exactly the same.
Strike if you like. But if there are people willing to do the same work for less, then let them do it instead. That’s called market forces – we love it when they work in our favour to drive down prices, or to get better returns on savings etc – but when they work against us, listen to our pathetic bleating. Hypocrites.
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come bank holidays the binmen are supposed to come on a saturday to my house but always come on a friday within an hour of normal collection days. also on normal collection day they pull rubbish bags out before 5am when they are saying they dont start till 7am.
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Fairplay to these people. It is not right to lose that sort of wage when you have been earning and are used to a certain amount over the years. No doubt these people do overlook the “rules” to get the job done. Why should these hardworking people have to suffer just because the people at the top have got things wrong in the past.
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You never heard the 5,000 members of staff that have been getting less wages for years complain ,threaten to work to rule or strike because they received less pay then the other 1,400 members of staff. Having read over the years about some of the bonuses that the refuse workers have received then I’m sure that if they do work to rule or even strike they will get very little sympathy from the public in Sandwell when their rubbish is not collected.
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An employment tribunal ruled just over a week ago that you cannot deduct money from employees if they have been paid that amount for years.
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the bin men will lose even more money when the bin collections are put into private hands
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No problem if they want to strike.
Sack em.
No problem replacing them.
A little bit of training and A to Z’s in Polish and away we go with better and harder workers.
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Fantastic comment by Mahboob Hussain.
Thats really going to solve the issue isn’t it. So lets just watch and wait until we know for sure what they do and then we’ll think of a solution. Laughable.
They said they we’re going to work to rule, so expect them to.
D.
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My husband works for sandwell homes he had to take a pay cut a few years back.It was pushed through by management and sadly the unions had no power to object,they made all of the noises but it was pushed ahead anyway.If only the people of sandwell knew how much money is being wasted at management level they would not believe it it’s really sickening he’s witnessed it every day.His pay has gone down over the years and the cost of living has gone up.It’s not fair but then again Britain isn’t so we can see why they are angry moral is low..
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No 2 C Davies, if you read the article, it actually says that they took mortgages out years ago based on the money they were earning at the time. Now they are going to have their money reduced by 5k plus, this will cause them a problem maintaining their mortgage payments and lifestyle.
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Whilst I feel for anyone in this ecomonic climate and understand that more money is needed not less I simply cannot agree with any strike action and will stand and oppose it.
I pay my council tax to have my rubbish collected yet most times the bags are left scattered across the pavements as the bin men callously drag them away. There are times when they simply leave them behind and I have to call in to report it. Sorry but most of you just dont do your job properly anyway. I say sack the lot and get in private companies who will do the job well. I and all other people pay for this service and pay large amounts so stop your moaning, do your jobs. If you get wage reductions then apply for housing benefit, tax credits etc and live like the rest of us have to.
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Follow TOTAL’s example and sack the lot of ‘em.
There’d be no shortage of people to fill the vacancies and do an honest days work for an honest days pay.
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Rob H, wish someone had ruled that in my favour, I had to take a 10% pay cut some 7 years ago !!or walk, no choice.. I know people who are still being forced to take paycuts to keep a job and keep work going, is it because these are council workers? they are just bringing lower paid workers in line, Binmen have a doddle of a job, rubbish is now put out for them and in some streets also all put together!!! dont even have to lift a bin as they used too. In the work climate it’s terrible to see anyone have to take a paycut but it happens at least they have a job, and not having to take on extra work, the firm I worked for took 10% and increased out work load, and I believe they have done it again twice !!! since I left………………. oh well good luck to them, just hope they don’t expect tips at Christmas
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Personally, sack the lot, they don’t do the job they are paid for in the first place so why worry. There are certainly a lot of people out there who could do the job, and I know my friend’s husband has applied several times to be a bin man.
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Wow you lot do support the working parties. Yeah sack them and put them on the dole and us taxpayers will pick up the bill not you dole dosers asking for the sacking. None of you would do the job so best to keep it shut.
The councils waste more money every year on junk and management than pay for the foundation workers ie bin men – no8 I bet you moan about immigrants and then want to employee them – shame on you lot
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Good on you lads stick it up them. Its funny how they always kick the lower worker in the gut’s. Its the same down here in OZ they never seem to be pay cuts at the top end. The white shirt boys only get pay rises.
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This is not a pay cut – it’s a total restructure. Sandwell workers signed contracts when they started working for the authority, Sandwell are now just ripping up the contracts and paying out whatever they want. I support the binmen – they are not talking about striking just working to their contract, why not? Sandwell are not playing fair so why should they do anything extra?
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It doesn’t matter when anyone took out a mortgage compared to whatever pay they were getting at any time… if I take out a loan based on my current salary I do so at a risk, just like everyone else, just like these binmen should do.
If they have a written contract stating that over the next however years, they will receive a salary of whatever, then that’s a different matter.
No-one has a right to a particular lifestyle, simply because they are used to it – in the same way that just because the cost of certain goods in the shops are rising no-one has a right to a pay rise to cover those rises. Wages are simply rewards for labour based on a private agreement between employer and employee – they’re not welfare, they’re not charity and they’re not enshrined in rights, other than Minimum Pay and working conditions legislation and contract law.
Yes, you’re right 16 and 17 the white shirt boys only seem to get pay rises. But it makes more sense to look at absolute numbers. If one manager gets a 10% rise from £100,000 to £110,000 then the Council pays an extra £10,000. If 100 rank and file staff on £24,000 get a 5% pay rise to go up to £25,200 then the Council pays and extra £120,000. While it might look immoral for managers to get paid so much, on paper when compared to wages of everyone else, it’s a drop in the ocean.
Rather than cut their pay, it makes more sense to ask them to do more for the same. That way everyone’s happy.
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I’m shocked that theres 5k to come of their wages, just what exactly were they on?
Its a manual labouring job, which due to strong unions (due to the ability to threaten a direct service that rubbish removal is) has been able to demand an unrealisticaly high salary. I feel for the people effected, but at the end of the day its the Unions that put them in this position, the council are just realigning their pay levels.
With the economy where it is there are plenty of people who are also having to take reduced pay to stay in a job, they should count themselves lucky to be still employed in a secure job.
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18. Tina B.. I completley agree I know someone that works for Sandwell Homes (this company is basicly owned by Sandwell Council (easy way to explain it) and he is saying that he may have a 4k pay cut in the new wage structure which is roughly 20% pay cut. People will lose there homes with cuts like this.
Its a take it or be sacked situation totaly out of order and people using the current economic climate as an excuse for actions like this SHAME ON YOU
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Contrary to what people believe the bin men won’t loose 5k a year in their wages. The equal pay is about bringing all bin men and support school workers etc in line with each other through out the borough. Schools will have to pay the same rates of pay for support staff as each other. Thats what it is mainly about. Bin men will suffer because of bonuses they recieve but if they are on 15 k a year they won’t be docked down to 10k thats not how it will work. I don’t agree with it but thats the way it is and will be for all councils country wide.
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22. Brian… If the the next band (pay scale) down is 2,3,4 k below what they earn know thats waht they will be getting.
The person I was reffering to in my earlier post (although it is SANDWELL HOMES and not SANDWELL COUNCIL)if he is moved down to the next pay band it will be a £3,800 per year pay cut. I agree that yes he will still have a job and it is better than Job seekers but £73.00 per week is still a lot of money to lose
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I WORK FOR WOLVERHAMPTON HOMES AND EVEN THOUGH I SYMPATHISE WITH THE BIN MEN. WE HAVE JUST BEEN TOLD THAT WE WILL BE GETTING A SUBSTANTIAL PAY RISE THEREFORE I CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHY ANOTHER LOCAL AUTHORITY IS CUTTING WAGES WHEN THERE IS PLENTY OF MONEY TO GO AROUND
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no23 baggie boy. The pay scales are changing completely. How it works people will find out in a few weeks Wokers won’t be dropped down they will enter a new pay scale structure. Lsa staff who support teachers will all be on the same money, but if one school pays 14k for an lsa and another pays 16k for the same staff which pay scale is going to be used? Thats the issue because the higher payed las might be on the lower scale but all schools will have the same pay structure and so will all other council departmnts. The scales may increase your pay or you may stay the same. The bin men wil loose out as will some others because of overtime and bonuses that wil not be included in the new pay structure. Its still bad when you are used to a set income i agree.
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Sorry I haven’t a clue on the matter but it doesn’t seem to have stopped many on having an opinion.
It seems the council is trying to bring parity to the wage structure the low paid rejoice and the well paid bemoan!
All I want is for me not to pay for it and I want my rubbish collected.
I work for a company where staff have been made redundant many of whom have young families and unfortunately my sympathy lies with them. So if a bin person can’t have the standard of living he/she’s accustomed to I don’t have any feelings of sympathy in today’s economic environment!!
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I think they dont do there job right and everytime i see the bin men all they do it moan about what they are doing. they have all these bonuses and wage increase but still do not do anymore. if they have brought or are renting big fancy homes that is there problem. their are other people in the same situation with having pay cuts or lost there jobs but they are not putting it over over the papers, they are just dealing with it. they should be happy they have still got a job. like people have said there are lots of people out there who have lost there job and need one, so there are always people to take you job. so bin men stop moaning do your job or someone else will be happy to take that job from you!!
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Although in the story I read, the salary the binmen were on to start with wasnt mentioned so not sure how much they are losing. But I was under the impression that if you are offered a job at a certain wage, and then later during that employment they wanted to reduce your wage for whatever reason there had to be a 12 week notice period, and then they still had to offer compensation for the wages lost, has this happened?.
This really seems to stink of officials finally trying to pay certain people what they should be on anyway, but at the expense of others insted of the council’s coffers!.
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hi ive been reading the posts with a keen eye . i work for sandwell homes . the service we provide works 24 hrs a day 7 days a week 365 days a year . the bin men arent losing on there salary there loseing via a bonus scheme only they seem to have .they got bonuses for working bank holidays when in fact they never have worked bank holidays . they infact were paid bonuses to work saturdays in order to catch up on rubbish removals from the bank holidays .this is not just sandwell homes job evaluation but every council in the country has been ordered to do this scheme . why? because so many councils have been taken to tribunals by the low paid seeking equality its cost sandwell homes and sandwell council millions in compensation to back pay staff who were judged to have been underpaid .now sandwell homes reckon its going to cost them 4.1 million pounds to bring this new staus in but this is a drop in the ocean when you compare it to future compensation claims . this scheme is supposed to help try and even out the huge gulf between the high paid and the low paid .my job pays me roughly 11 thousand pound less than the driver of a bin crew and for this i HAVE to work bank holidays and weekends as part of my working week including christmas day and boxing day so forgive me if i say what goes around comes around . the binmen of sandwell have held this borough to ransome for to long demanding huge bonuses to move the rubbish there employed to do .now taking there story to the newspaper is just a ploy to gain sympathy how many other employees are going to take huge pay cuts and not get this kind of publicity ? and work to rule what a joke that is there supposed to clear up rubbish that comes out of bags . if my refuse isnt outside my house it doesnt get taken .now how many of you reading this expect huge bonuses for the jobs your already paid to do? well i hope a few more of you now understand why and how this system now works im hoping i get a pay increase on a higher level but like many in the organisation im waiting for the dreaded envelope with my new scale on .
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29 r. Yes I am also waiting for the letter and I’m not a binman. I just want to point out that the binmen have not said they will strike. They have said they will work to their contracts – the contracts that single status has worked out their new wage scales on. I think this is a fair thing to do personally and I can assure you that I will also do the same if my wages drop. There are 2 points to this: firstly, this is the work they are telling me i should do for this amount of money and secondly if there is no-one to cover other parts of the job (the bits they are not paying us for) then the council should employ someone else and this will help reduce the unemployment figures. I agree with the binmen – no more goodwill jobs for employers who cut our wages and change our contracts at the drop of a hat.
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