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Pub snookered by darts law
Monday 21st January 2008, 11:42AM GMT.
Regulars at The Woodman Inn in like nothing better than to relax with a pint while playing traditional pub games.
But landlady Diane Yates says she has been told her customers could be breaking the law by playing games such as darts, dominoes or pool. The controversy centres around new pub entertainment licenses.
The Cheslyn Hay landlady said officers from South Staffordshire District Council visited the pub last week to inform her of the rules which meant no sports could take place on the premises.
Quickly, in a bid to avoid a brush with the law, the 25-year-old domino group had to be axed, the football team, currently at the top of the league, was threatened with being disbanded, and the darts team had to go elsewhere. She said she was also told the pool table could only be used for matches if taken outside.
Then on Friday she was informed sports could actually be played at her pub as long as she applies for the appropriate licence, but no-one is allowed to watch any games as this would constitute a live sporting event.
She said: “We had the council officers down who told us they can now play but no-one is allowed to watch. This has gone even more ridiculous. What am I supposed to do? Blindfold the regulars?
“We had a couple of complaints since the smoking ban came in and the police had to tell our area manager. It then turned out we didn’t have the right licence.
“This rule only came in in 2005 so I am sure there are other pubs who may be affected but don’t know.
“I had to pay £1,800 for the original licence and will have to pay for the new one. I was told that I couldn’t have music playing, I can have the TV on but with no sound. The regulars can’t sing any songs and the sports teams have been banned,” she added.
Mrs Yates said she had attempted to get help from her brewery, Scottish and Newcastle, but was told the licence would have to be applied for out of her own pocket.
Annoyed domino player Arthur Shaw, 56, who has been a pub regular for 30 years, said: “When Diane told us we said ‘fine let the police arrest us for playing dominoes’. I think this is absolutely ridiculous.”
Dad Donovan Hurd, aged 33, who drives from Cannock to the pub regularly, said that his son Taylor, aged four, has developed a love of playing pool.
“This is a quiet family pub and I just can’t get my head round it,” he said.
“Is it a joke? We even had a table football that we used to have a go on and that has also had to be taken,” he added.
Cheslyn Hay Parish Council member Mac Harris said he was sympathetic to the pub’s cause but that the issue boiled down to a simple case of not having the right licence.
“The unfortunate thing is she doesn’t have the right licence, a licence which only came in a few years ago,” he said.
“They will have to make a new application for live music and so they can play sports,” explained the parish council member.
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One side or the other seems to have got this wrong , as is made clear in the guidance to the Licensing Act. “Games commonly played in pubs and social and youth clubs like pool, darts, table tennis and billiards may fall within the definition of indoor sports, but normally they would not be played for the entertainment of spectators but for the private enjoyment of the participants.
As such, they would not normally constitute the provision of regulated entertainment, and the facilities provided (even if a pub provides them with a view to profit) and do not fall within the limited list of entertainment facilities. It is only when games take place in the presence of an audience and are provided to, at least in part, entertain that audience, for example, a darts championship competition, that the activity would become licensable.”
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the laws of this stupid country just keep getting worse
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welcome to the fun nazi,s !!!!!
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I agree with Mark… Were just not allowed to have fun or enjoy ourselves in this country at anymore!!!
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What absolute nonsense ! And of course Scottish and Newcastle can’t afford to assist,shame on you Scottish and Newcastle . Well done too the Parish Council,for being so sympathetic, the licencee may well have the wrong licence, but surely the question is ‘the need for a licence to play pub games at all’.
Little wonder that pubs are going to the wall.
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I would love to meet the dipstick that comes up with these stupid rules. I bet they’re a real livewire on a night out with their half a pint of lager and lime. Get a life you rule making, fun ruining plokers. Come to a strict Middle Eastern country we have darts tournaments, pool matches, live bands loud music. All with spectators. Oh they are called customers. It’s how a business makes money.
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absolutely ridiculous!!!!!
councils and the govt of this country need to take themselves of a cliff!!
but as usual the none trouble making mambers of the public are picked on!
all the councils have the ir anti bullying rules so why not follow them as I can see is this is a way of bullying. why not leave this alone and listen to the folk who pay their wages and action the anti social behaviour of the yob culture? or help the old folk? but ni its easier to go down the local pub and stop any fun that innocent law abiding folk are having!
Shame on the coouncils of this country,, I,m just glad I,m off to pastures new as far as i,m comncerned this country is knackered and is being run by a group of power hungry morons.
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More Income for the council can;t you see that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I’m thinking of proposing a Common Sense Licensing Act – or is that too much for this country? I agree with 06, best times of our lives were in Saudi. But I don’t think they will be drinking half a lager and lime – no, it will probably have to be served in separate plastic dispensers with a cushion on the floor, with a notice to be careful if you fall over the protection. Steady lads………. Those dominoes must be dangerous – a small council worker could choke on one.
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Know you see, to take this even further, the law itself is ambiguous. What number of people constitutes an audience, 1 ? 2? 5?
The law itself is complete nonsense and you can pull it apart with ease. So an audience is any other person expect the opposing team? Absolutely pathetic. The originator of the law needs to be locked up, for wasting the publics time.
Soon you’ll need to purchase a gambling licence to play fruit machines.
And what about quiz night?
Utter nonsense.
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I am here in Canada and for the last few years I have been collecting moron stories from back home. This story is the dummest yet. It has caused my friends here to call me a liar and accuse me of making it up, but I proved them all wrong. They are starting to realise why I left England. This petty small minded pathetic council should be ashamed of themselves!!
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Yes I think the council have got this wrong, how can a pub have two pool teams in a league, running for years and now this is an illegal activity, has anyone any suggestions as to how we get the pool table out of the pub ready for this weeks match and where we can legall put it without breaking the law? The PRS license cost £1800 which legally entitiles us to play music in the pub but this also has to be added to the premises license which Scottish and New castle said they did through their solicitors, today I find they didn’t even use my name and their solicitor will now change this so I can actually apply for this variance. Of course things will get sorted eventually,the customers have been very supportive and are happy to listen to Heart FM, the atmosphere is still the same.
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We think the country has gone MAD!!!
I am a part of the pool Woodman team and enjoy my Sunday nights.People who sit in their front rooms with their televisions turned down listening and waiting for things to happen,ie some of the local residents who live in the vicinity need to get a life.Residents are all quick enough to condemn the youth of today for hanging around street corners etc but the Woodman have welcomed young adults who come into the pub to socialise and play pool ,darts etc.keeping them off the streets making them feel part of our local community interacting with all age groups not causing any trouble but just enjoying themselves on a evening out.So all you( DO GOODERS) get your glad rags on come and see for yourselves before making judgement and listening to general gossip around the area and maybe you all will be surprised to see how well behaved mannered the young adults behave today before taring everyone with the same brush !!!!!!!
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Nice bit of free publicity for the the pub though. I quote “she has been told her customers COULD be breaking the law”
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Oh my goodness – reach for that Daily Mail! Haven’t you all got your knickers in a twist! Read the first response carefully! Or better read the guidance to the Licencing Act yourselves! Now take a deep breath and CALM DOWN!
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I live in the States. When Americans think of England, we think of the quaint Pubs with people relaxing and playing darts and dominoes. When I visit England, those are the kinds of places I enjoy going to. Gosh, there isn’t going to be much reason to visit anymore! How absurd!!
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Stupid question – Why did the lady in charge
not simply apply for the correct licence ?
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Shame on the lazy incompetent south staffs council workers who overlooked the non renewal of the Pub’s licence and let it get to this stage. They should be named and shamed!
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To answer 17
I am a great believer in doing things myself then I know they are done right, but when your dealing with a company like Scottish and Newcastle they don’t trust us to do this, they like everything done via their solicitor, all above board…..hence the problem
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