Live Q+A: University tuition fees – Wednesday 25 May – 1-3pm
Monday 23rd May 2011, 11:30AM BST.
This discussion has now finished. Scroll down to the comments to catch up with the debate as it happened.
The new university fees are said to be putting off A-Level students from moving on to further education, with many charging students the maximum annual tuition of £9,000 – three times more than students currently pay.
So can you afford to go to university now? And will your course be worth the money that you pay for it?
If you’re unsure about the new fees and how they’ll affect your prospects of further education then help is at hand in our live Q+A on tuition fees and universities where our team of experts will answer all of your questions.
You can also quiz our panel on all aspects of student finance and how to find out if you are eligible and apply for financial support during your studies.
Our panel includes:
Jane Nelson, Pro Vice-Chancellor Student Affairs, University of Wolverhampton
Jane Nelson has overall responsibility for student affairs (including Registry, Office of the Dean of Students, student support, tuition fees and bursaries and timetabling), alumni and fundraising at the University of Wolverhampton.
This makes her perfectly placed to offer advice to prospective students who have questions about how the new fees will affect their university lives.
Usman Ali, Vice President (Higher Education), National Union of Students
Usman Ali is the first Muslim Vice-President in the history of the National Union of Students. He was also the Chair of the Communications Scrutiny Committee and the Nominations committee whilst being on the ‘block.’
Prior to the NUS, he was the President and Vice-President (Activities) at the University of Salford, where he studied Business Information Systems with a 1 year industrial placement.
This discussion has now finished. Follow the debate as it happened in the comments section below:
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My son starts university next years after years of study at school. I live on a small income, less than £3,000 pers year, that’s right, less than three thousnad punds a year. I would like my son to improve his life chances and his income too, and gain a better standard of life then that of which he grew up in.
Now, he cannot improve his life if I cannot afford to send him to university, which means that his quality of life will remain the same as the past 17 years. How can £9,000 be justified? The student has rent to pay, books to buy, travel cost and food too, plus general living cost too. I really would like my son to go to university, however, the government are making it increasingly difficutl for student from a low socio ecomonic group, and back ground able to attend university? Only the more affluent will attend and poor kids like my son will never reach his potential and his future will never be realised.
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The £9,000 is not an up-front fee, so your son will still be able to attend university.
He will also get a loan for his living costs, books, etc.
All of which he isn’t required to pay back until he is working and earning a decent wage (I think it’s 15,000 at the moment).
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Yes, Jack, you are right. The fee will not be paid upfront. Loans will be available for both tuition fees and maintenance costs, and will not be repayable until the graduate is earning £21k p.a.
The best website for details about loans and repayments is:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/yourfuture
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Hi Dean, the previous commenter is right that your son will get loans to cover the tuition fees and some substantial support in the form of loans and grants towards living costs. He won’t have to start paying back until he’s earning over a certain amount which for those starting 2012 will be £21,000, at that point he pays back 9% of everything he earns over £21,000. So it’s not as bleak as you were perhaps worried about. Obviously the consideration for him will be whether he thinks taking on the debt is worth it – having a degree still usually means higher wages throughout your career but it means losing a fair chunk of your paycheck for up to 30 years. He can also decide to go to one of the few universities that isn’t charging £9,000 thus saving himself some money but he also risks a the perception of a poorer education or even the perception from others that his was a poorer education because of the ‘cheaper price’. It’s a difficult decision and one NUS feels he shouldn’t have to make. We think he should be able make his decision about where and what he studies based on his talents and ambitions not how much debt he feels he can take on for 30 years.
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When I went to Uni, I was able to attend to study television and film production, which didn’t get me a job in that area, but DID mean that I had a degree that enabled me to get work producing websites (using some of the skills I had learnt and put into practice.)
Prospective students will now have to much more selective about their choices; I do not believe that the course I did was a ‘free ride’ or a ‘vanity course’ by any means, but if people are being asked to spend up to £9,000 they need some sort of assistance and direction on choosing a course that will serve them for the future.
With courses from Wolverhampton costing from £7,000 – £8,500, which schools of study offer the best value and best future outlook for students to look into at Wolverhampton University?
What type of support and guidance can the University give to students as they approach the end of their study in their chosen field which will assist them in finding a suitable job?
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The University’s Careers and Employment Centre is available to all students and recent graduates. They have a range of information available about career prospects, individual guidance sessions and details of full-time work, placement opportunities and internships. These are available for current students as well as for graduates.
You’ve given a good example of how you’ve been able to use what you learned in your degree, even if not in the area that you originally expected to work.
65% of all graduate job vacancies advertised do not require a particular subject area – employers are as often seeking essential graduate attributes such as critical thinking, independence, flexibility and a global outlook.
On the other hand, we also offer courses which lead to very specific career outcomes, such as teacher training and nursing.
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I’m planning to go to uni this year.
does that mean i will pay the low fee this year and then the high fee next year.
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Ask the Uni you want to go to. But I think you will find the answer is no. Students starting this year will be on the same fee level for the natural length of their accepted course.
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Sonia – The good news is no you won’t. If you start a course this year you’ll pay fees at the current level of £3,375 for the full three years of your course.
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Have to admit, I wondered this myself. I wonder if this means there will be a rush for places this year. I doubt there will be too many people taking gap years!
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We’re definitely seeing a rush to beat the rise this year. When you add that to the hundreds of thousands who’ve missed out in the last two years because of a shortfall in places, many of whom will be reapplying this year, I think we’re going to see a lot of disappointed young people not getting a place this year. .
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We are certainly experiencing a high level of demand for 2011 entry. However we have some places still available in some subject areas. If you’re interested in 2011 entry, have a look at:
http://www.wlv.ac.uk/undergraduate
….and come to our next Open Day on 11 June:
http://www.wlv.ac.uk/opendays
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Hello,
Hope you are well.
I graduated from University of Wolverhampton in 2010, from a BSc (Hons) Psychology course.
I have completed this course with a debt of £16.500, in addition to the accumulating interest.
The reality is that Psychology graduates are not valued on the employment market; currently very few jobs are available to us.
Therefore, most Psychology graduates working within mental health are overqualified for the positions they undertake, to be able to gain the experience necessary for career or academic progression.
My questions are:
How does the new boost in tuition fees affect postgraduate courses (MSc, PhD)?
How are universities working towards promoting the skills and professional ability of graduates?
Thank you.
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Will your £8500 guarantee smaller classes, more staff and better resources?
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The unfortunate answer is no. Universities have in some ways been stuck between a rock and a hard place. The Government are removing about 80% of the teaching grant to universities and some courses will receive absolutely no Government funding whatsoever. Because of this universities need to charge in the region of £7,000 (more than doubling fees) just to keep funding at the same level it is now. Many would argue that charging above that allows them to ‘save for a rainy day’ in case the Government decides to slash funding even further. Others, myself included, would argue that due to the Government completely misunderstanding their powers to regulate tuition fees many have gone up to £9,000 or there abouts just because they can get away with it. There is no guarantee for students present or future that their experience will improve. Universities can not expect students to be paying more for the same, and certainly not paying more for less!
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Thanks. I thought that would be the case. Now, how about Jane Nelson’s perspective on this?
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Oops, sorry, I’ve only just spotted your 1.54pm comment.
The University will continue to invest money in improvements, and we have reflected this in our tuition fee. Class size, and the number of staff, depends on the subject, but ensuring that all students have access to excellent resources is a continuing priority. For example, we have invested £100m invested in new learning facilities over the past ten years. The most recent investment – the new Performance Hub and Learning Centre on our Walsall campus – is due to open in September 2011. Take a virtual tour at:
http://www.wlv.ac.uk/theperformancehub
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No government restrictions have meant that for the past 3 years.
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I think the university of wolverhampton is not thinking about the fees aspect clearly. Wolverhampton are proposing to charge £8500 per year to anyone who is a student from Sept 2012. For £500 more you could go to a better uni.
From comments I heard from students the support is not there, the level of tutoring is poor (espc to P/T student).
Would the University guarentee that you will gt better tutoring, better support and a better reputation for going to that uni?
Those who study at Wolverhampton are less thought of because of the University’s reputation within the specialist fields eg Law.
I wanted to go uni this year but I am put off because of the fees. I can study PT with OU for LESS! and still qualify in the same length of time.
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This doesn’t reflect the feedback that we get from our students, who go on to a wide range of diverse careers. 90% of 2009 graduates from Wolverhampton (the most recent data available)went straight into employment or further study after they had finished their courses.
A large number of our courses have professional body accreditation, and we are in good standing in every area.
We recognise that student support is going to be even more important for students in the future, and we’re continuing to invest in developing these alongside our Students’ Union.
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I have two children one of whom wants to study medicine while the other is keen to be a vet. BY my reckoning that’s at least a combined 12 years of university education which would set them (and me!) back £108,000.
When you get to that level of cost it seems to make more sense to actually move to Scotland. Does the panel have any thoughts?
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Tim:
don’t forget living expenses.
Top universities in Holland and the Scandinavian countries (i.e. less rightwing, more civilised nations) offer free tuition and degree courses in English, especially in medical and veterinary subjects. They often help students find jobs too.
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I wonder what the rationale is for the 8.5K price tag? Obviously it’s not for the time tutors spend in class given the blended learning directive of FOFO. Could it be that students will get more one-to-one time with academic staff? Probably not given the insanity driving micro-managing workloads (stack hi sell not-so-cheap) for those that have decided to dedicate their working lives to helping others better their lot, mmm (still only very weak mangers manage at the micro level). I cannot help but ponder on the enormity of the bill for maintaing the central bureaucracy which serves only its’ self. So why should I pay a premium for that?
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I too question where this magic £9000 figure has come from.?
Can someone break it down for me and explain how much funding the Government currently gives the Universities per student (I doubt that it is anywhere near £9000)and if this is removed what the actual cost of courses would be ?
Given that lecture hours per course per week seem to vary by University and that most lectures would contain considerably more than 1 person,the hourly rate payable must be astronomic and well in excess of the lecturers fees ?
We are all being ripped off again.
I’ve suggested that a regulatory body should be set up to ensure value for money,but have been told that the Government isn’t there to regulate “private” industry.
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The first thing to say here is that this will not be additional income to universities – it will in effect replace funding that we currently get from the Government. The Govt is going to reduce funding for teaching by about 80%. This will shift the cost to graduates, who will start to contribute after they are earning a graduate level salary (£21k is the repayment threshold).
Different subjects cost different amounts to teach, depending upon things like specialist equipment and facilities, as well as the number of students taking the course.
The University’s fees for 2012 entrants have been set to enable the University to compensate for the withdrawal of Govt funding and maintain good facilities and support.
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Good afternoon and welcome to this live Q+A on tuition fees and student finance.
We’ll be joined today by the University of Wolverhampton’s Pro Vice-Chancellor of Student Affairs, Jane Nelson, and Usman Ali, Vice President (Higher Education) of the National Union of Students.
They are now online and will be available to answer your questions until 3pm.
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As we begin, could I ask Usman to provide us with an outline of the NUS’ position on the increased tuition fees for 2012?
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It’s no secret that NUS is against the rise in fees, and fees in general, but that’s not a knee-jerk reaction against students making a contribution to the cost of higher education. Far from it, we do think that in the current economic and political climate it is fair that graduates contribute to the cost of higher education but we’ve proposed a fully costed graduate tax which asks graduates to make a small extra contribution through the tax system for a defined period, which would be used to fund universities for those that follow them. This removes the dangerous ‘price tag’ which marks universities as better simply if they are more expensive, regardless of how appropriate their education is to an individual student, and removes the prospect of huge debts which evidence shows regardless of the repayment system puts many many poorer students off going to university. The new system the Government has introduced has been a disaster for reasons to numerous to list here but the key facts are that it comes hand in hand with a massive cut to the funding of teaching in universities that means students on many courses will be paying the full cost of their degrees with Government backing, essentially privatising universities by stealth. The government also promised that a ‘market’ would emerge in fees which they think would be better because it would give students more choice. In reality it would mean that richer students felt able to afford to go to more expensive universities and get the prestige that comes with that and poorer students who took the risk would go to cheaper universities and face disdain as their education was undervalued by employers. Since the fees regime was announced we’ve seen no evidence of a market as universities have no incentive to charge anything but prices right near the top – 85% of universities are already charging the full £9,000 for at least some of their courses, which is hardly a competitive market!
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I want my children to go to uni in the future. I am wondering with such high fees of £9,000,
will Wolverhampton University be guaranteeing a certain number of hours of classes with lecturers every week?
I don’t think its fair to charge so much money if they only get 10 hours of classes a week.
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The number of contact hours really needs to be appropriate to the particular subject. For example, our nurses, teachers and pharmacists will have very full timetables to ensure that they get the hands on experience that they will need. In other disciplines, lecturers support their students in other ways, including seminars, guided self study, and using interactive on-line material.
From 2012, every University will publish information about contact hours and learning styles. This is something that the NUS has emphasised as being important to students and prospective students to help them make informed choices.
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Hannah – Similar to what Jane has said. Students should know what to expect, especially in terms of contact hours. However it should not just be an arbitrary figure. Contact hour’s appears in many forms. So the potential student should not just know the figure of contact hours, but how that would look in reality and where these ‘hours’ are taking place and in what format exactly..
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As a result of the changes will:
1 The university reduce the number of course offered considerably?
2 The quantity of hours of face to face time with lecturers increase by over 50%?
3 Students be able to obtain refunds if the pass rate on a module is below, for example, 60%?
4 The percentage of first class degrees double?
5 Students be able to demand some refunds if lecturers miss lectures, arrive late, or fail to prepare them adequately for the examination.
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Students should have those guarantees. If Government want students to act like consumers then they should have rights around the quality of their education, the worth of their degree, contact time, etc and if they don’t get those things they should be able to get a refund or easily take their money to another university to finish their course. Unfortunately, none of that has been built in to the Government’s plans and students have virtually no come back if their universities let them down. It’s indicative of the poor planning that went in to this policy when the Government rushed it through parliament.
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Hi D Walker,
From my experience at the University of Wolverhampton, lecturers use the same content even same PowerPoint presentations design every year.
Therefore, the effort invested in creating these educational materials is minimal and often outdated.
Also, the assignments have not changed from year to year, 2011 graduates completing same assignments to those graduating in 2010.
With the 21st Century information speed, new and revolutionary research findings every year, the lecture contents speak nothing of.
Ultimately, independent studies carry the new and extremely high price tag.
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Ioana – some good points here. Universities and lecturers have to get in line with the online world. There needs to be investment in ICT equipment and training for staff. It is about the added value the student and staff would get. The NUS did some research on student perceptions on ICT and this seems to be a issue that comes up and needs to be worked on. If institutions do not change with the times, they will become irrelevant for the student. Now we see huge amounts of non traditional students on campus, especially on campuses like Wolverhampton. The traditional methods of teachings need to change for the non traditional students we now see.
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At Wolverhampton we know from the National Student Survey that students rate highly the quality of our teaching and learning. There are areas that we are working to improve, and we have recently overhauled our entire undergraduate curriculum, and 2009 and 2010 entrants have in the main been following these new courses.
For some subjects ‘new and revolutionary research findings’ sit alongside essential content that will not necessarily vary from year to year. What differentiates ‘higher education’ from ‘training’ is that you will be taught by people who can draw on both established knowledge and current research.
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To Jane Nelson & Usman Ali (Vice President Higher Education) NUS
Thank you for your reply.
I am looking forward to the new and improved educational system that encompasses the “non-traditional” students.
It surprises me how slow the progress process is considering the level of knowledge and access to materials academic institutions have.
One would argue that you do not need additional training (beyond the PhD and teaching training) to be able to contribute or improve the quality of the lecture content, but motivation to do ones job to the best of your ability.
After all, how does one justify the income when rushing through lectures, halving a 2 hour timeslot dedicated per topic, cancelling classes or not offering support or even responding to emails?
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The increased tuition fees are said to be putting off young people who might wish to go to university from 2012 onwards. What would you say to people who are now having second thoughts?
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Don’t forget that there are no fees upfront, and the loans are not repaid until you are earning a graduate level salary. Your repayments cease if at any point your earnings go below £21k e.g. during any periods when you are not employed.
There are still a number of things to be sorted out about how this will all work and what exactly the fees are going to be. So I would urge prospective students to keep in touch by looking at information about the national funding arrangements at:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/yourfuture
and about the University of Wolverhampton at:
http://www.wlv.ac.uk/fees2012
Also, if you would like to talk to someone about this one-to-one, come to our next Open Day on Saturday 11 June:
http://www.wlv.ac.uk/opendays
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Todd – It is a shame that young people will be deterred. Some research done by the Aim Higher Merseyside found that it was not just young people who were put off, but their parents admitted they would not send their children to university due the level of debt they would come out with.
I would encourage all with the ability and ambition to go to University. There are huge benefits by attending. Some financial, others skill based and some benefits in regards to the people you meet and learn from. Also, we need to look at education as a whole. There are great opportunities in doing an apprenticeship for example. We need to change the perception of ‘excellence and success.’ The average person who goes to University earns approximately £105,000 more over their lifetime and this figure is the same for a apprentice student to.
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Is it worth considering going abroad? I have read that English students can actually go to university in Holland without paying the same level of tuition fees and that some courses are conducted in English anyway.
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You would need to look into this very carefully. It is correct that, unlike the UK, many European governments are continuing to directly fund teaching in their universities. BUT:
1. The number of places available will be limited.
2. The cost of living abroad (especially bearing in mind the exchange rate with the Euro, and travel costs) will be higher – and much higher than if you live at home and study locally.
3. The UK higher education system is amongst the best in the world, with good completion rates and well-recognised qualifications.
If you were thinking about this, you would need to consider it very carefully from a lot of different angles.
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I wonder how much this is going to impact on gap years – lots of people like to take a year out between A-Levels and Further Education, but I assume that you can’t defer your place for a year and still pay the current fees?
So are we going to see more of a scramble for University places this year with students making sure that they book their place before the fees increase?
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Yes, I think this is a fair reflection of what is happening this year. If you defer your entry until 2012 you will be subject to higher fees (but remember you don’t have to pay these upfront). The increased tuition fees apply to all students entering higher education in September 2012.
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Does the Open University charge tuition fees? If not is that an option that the panel thinks is worth considering?
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Yes, they charge tuition fees – I expect details will be available on their website. However the Open University is a very different type of learning experience that will not suit everyone. But all options are worth considering, because getting a degree is worthwhile (see Usman’s comments above).
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OU is great for those that need to fit learning around other commitments or are doing a second degree and need to spread the cost. The flexibility really suits some people. I think we need a real variety of options for learning in Higher Education including distance learning, apprenticeships, shorter degrees, as well as the standard 3-year taught under-graduate university degree. The Government needs to support and encourage these rather than hoping that universities and students will somehow be able to make it work without Government funding.
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PS remember you can study part-time at other universities as well, and that, for the first time, from 2012, new part-time students will have access to a Government loan if they are studying at least 25% of a full-time course. You don’t have to pay fees upfront, and information for part-time students is also available at:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/yourfuture
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As a parent, will I have the option to pay for my child’s fees as they receive their university education, instead of being involved in a long winded payment programme?
ie Can I pay three lots of £8,5000 so my child has no further financial obligations for tuition fees?
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Yes, you can pay upfront. At Wolverhampton we offer a flexible instalment plan where you can pay your tuition fees in three equal parts each year.
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David, I finished by part time degree at Wolverhampton Unievrsity last year. I did it over 4 years (just one more than normal) and I paid for each year through their instalment scheme as i went along. It actually worked out cheaper doing it part time, while I was still working, and at the end of the course I had no debts to pay.
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Perhaps we could discuss a bit more about student loans for those who don’t really know how they work. Am I correct in thinking that they’ll cover the full tuition fees (or is that yet to be decided?) When I was at university, you could also get a loan to help with your living costs? Is this still the same now?
And could you explain a little about how it works when you finish – we’ve mentioned that it only comes off when you earn over 21k, but roughly how much comes out and can you give an overview of how it is calculated?
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You get a loan to cover your full tuition fees up to the £9,000 if you’re studying full-time and on a first degree. You can also get a loan of upto X to help with living expenses, although most students find that doesn’t quite go far enough and they need to get some paid work as well. Dependent on household income you might also be eligible for a grant towards living costs which isn’t repayable but will reduce the amount of living cost loan you get. Hopefully that makes sense!
When you graduate you pay nothing until you’re earning over £21,000 and then you pay 9% of everything over that. You’ll also be paying interest at a rate of (probably) RPI plus 3%. You”ll keep paying back, direct from your paycheck, until you’ve paid it all off or until 30 years have past, which ever is sooner.
The Government estimate that around two-thirds of graduates will never pay back the full amount which they say is a good thing but I see it as losing a big chunk of your pay for 30 years which could affect your ability to borrow or to save for things like a pension or a deposit on a house.
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A PS to Usman’s comment. The Council of Mortgage Lenders has advised that the student loan is very unlikely to impact on any individual’s ability to get a mortgage. Plus, student loan information isn’t shared with credit reference agencies by Student Finance England.
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Yes the loan will cover a tuition fee up to a maximum of £9000 in an English university. You can also get loans for living costs of up to £5550 (if you live away from home but outside London). If you live at home a loan of up to £4375 p.a. is available.
There will also be maintenance grants. If your household income is less than £25,000 p.a., you will be entitled to a full grant of £3250 p.a. which you won’t have to pay back.
For repayments, you will repay at the rate of 9% of your income over £21,000 p.a. So, for example, if your salary is £25,000, the monthly repayment will be £30.
The best source of information is:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/yourfuture
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As Jane says that website is probably the best place to look to try and work out what support is available. Its repayment calculator isn’t quite so helpful though!
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PS: Wolverhampton will be participating in the new National Scholarship Programme for 2012 entrants. Watch our web pages for more information.
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Question for Jane:
The govt. are still going to fund STEM subjects (that’s the 20% that will remain, I think). Does this mean that if I choose to study one of these subjects at Wolverhampton, it will cost me less than £8,500? If the answer is no, how can the university justify cross-subsidising less economically important subjects?
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The cost of some STEM subjects(that stands for science, technology, engineering and maths) is much higher than £8500. Also, we don’t yet know which subjects will qualify for the small amount of funding that will continue.
It is too soon to know how the market will settle down in relation to different fees for different subjects. We will have to wait and see.
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It is now 3pm and this live discussion has now finished
It’s a very interesting debate and I’d just like to take this opportunity to thank Jane and Usman for taking part today and sharing some excellent advice.
For more news on schools and universities, visit our Education section.
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Thanks Todd it’s been really good. I hope we’ve been at least a bit helpful in shedding some light on the complicated mess of a Higher Education funding system the Government have given us all!
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