Time to map out a plan for Villa's future
- Says blogger Matthew Turvey
Cautionary warning over baths closure
Tuesday 16th February 2010, 8:09AM GMT.
In Westminster, a tumultuous parliament draws to a close, writes our Dudley man Mark Mudie.
Exhausted by the expenses scandal but energised by the impending election, an uneasy consensus has emerged between the three main parties. Trust in politics must be rebuilt, Messrs Brown, Cameron and Clegg agree.
With the polls suggesting Mr Cameron could be on his way to Number 10, the Tory leader would do well to examine the conduct of Dudley’s Conservative council when contemplating how to restore residents’ faith. Its ham-handed handling of the closure of Coseley baths is a cautionary tale, a case study in the abject alienation of a community by an arrogant administration.
Mr Cameron was in Dudley to address business leaders last week, pitching up the day after workers in hard hats and high-visibility vests moved onto the site of the doomed building.
While 350 sharp-suited delegates were waiting eagerly at Brierley Hill’s Copthorne Hotel when Mr Cameron arrived, thousands of residents in Coseley had no chance to get a greeting party ready for demolition contractors Coleman & Company.
Nobody had thought to tell them; or rather, somebody had thought to tell them but had decided they weren’t worth the bother.
That’s the feeling on the streets after a sorry saga which has been mismanaged throughout.
First, bosses refused to comment on speculation the baths would close, thus denying themselves the chance to set out a sophisticated case for closure while inviting reasoned debate.
When they broke their self-imposed silence in March last year, the venom and volume of the outcry was, understandably, magnified as a result.
The council never regained control of the issue – public meetings descended into ugly slanging matches between campaigners and councillors; no useful dialogue was ever established and an uneasy stand-off emerged.
It was in this context perhaps no surprise that when the day residents dreaded eventually came, there was no warning. Nevertheless, it was a bitter pill for residents to swallow – just days earlier Brian Guest, irrepressible leader of the Save Coseley Baths group, had been assured no contract for demolition had yet been signed.
As ever he was not told the whole truth – the deal was about to be done.
If Mr Cameron sweeps to power in May and wants a place to start rebuilding trust in politicians, the rubble of Coseley baths would be as good a place as any.
*****
Mr Cameron’s trip to Dudley was the first chance I have had to observe the man who would be King at close quarters. He impressed, delivering a speech with no little substance before taking questions with no little swagger. I could not help but conclude that, pitted against his rival in the red corner, Mr Cameron has something the current Prime Minister simply lacks – an aura.
*****
Headline: “£56million Winner Is Estate Agent”. A nation grimaces…
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Do you really suppose that no matter how ‘reasonable’ the Council had been in patiently explaining why Coseley Baths had to close (and, as I remember, explanations were given aplenty) its critics would have been remotely interested?
On one side you had a council that simply did not have the money to tart up a time-expired building – especially when another local authority was planning to build a brand new £15 million leisure centre just two miles up the road. On the other, baths campaigners who were (understandably) determined to keep their beloved baths regardless of the flawed economic logic in what they were demanding.
If Coseley Baths hold one lesson for a Cameron government it is that when there is no money left in the kitty (which, after Gordon Brown’s £800 billion debt binge there isn’t!) tough choices simply cannot be avoided. People will squeal, but if the deed has to be done it has to be done, irrespective of whether that renders to doer a hate figure in certain quarters.
Meanwhile (while all the kerfuffle over the Baths has been played out), Coseley has witnessed the building of a new youth club and major refurbishing of both a day centre for the elderly and a sheltered housing scheme. Is that the mark of an ‘arrogant administration’ or of one that looks to where the real long-term interests of its residents lie?
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What you said ray, could have come from one of the councillors on Dudley Council’s controlling group.
What would have been wrong with fronting-up on the roof problem when this came to light in a Dudley Council surveyors’ report in 2006-2007.
An open approach with chance of proper scrutiny of Council info. would have, to some extent, resolved a better informed public mind whatever you say.
This practice is the only way to build a constructive relationship with the public. Your notion that this would have not have made people more reasonable betrays a condesending attitude problem towards certain members of the public which is commensurate with that of the controlling group’s dynamic. People pay the council to treat them with respect and even if this doesn’t work, at least you tried. With Dudley Council, we ask the questions they give the same answers and we are supposed to shut up.
Even if the Government had provided the money to fix Coseley Baths, would dudley council have spent it there?
Now and in coming years, I would like to know how you can fit the users of two 33.5 metre pools (Coseley & Bilston) into one 25 metre pool and learner pool (proposed new Bilston).
Compare the proximity of Coseley and the proposed new Bilston (nearly 2 miles) with Haden Hill and Halesowen (same vintage as Coseley).
Compare what Dudley Council has taken away and still intends to with what is given.
The new youth centre is without the sports hall the old one had and Gornal’s (Conservative ward) has.
This, along with Roseville day centre and the expected retirement village leaves a gap made up of people with no facilities at all.
Granting and removal of facilities comes from on-hign with little or no consultation.
Other councils are open to self funding community trusts taking over facilities. A good example is Hilton Hall in Lanesfield, designed by the same Archictects’ firm as Coseley Baths, it has been leased to such a trust and is currently undergoing restoration.
I would be very interested in meeting you in person.
I’ve had the openness and decency to reveal who I am (as we have to on the letters page) and it is about time you did too!
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Ray, I think you call that OWNED!!, not gettin very popular on this site are we ray, I think you should do us all a favor and shut up, keeping your views and opinions to yourself, leaving theese wonderfull and good people to fight for what is right.
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Chris… Doesn’t your post rather prove what Ray says about some people not being ‘remotely interested’ in resonable debate?
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Karen, Save Coseley Baths has wanted reasonable debate all along but this has never been on offer because, right from the start, Dudley Council’s priority has been to defend its decision.
Whilst my belief in free speech stops me wanting to shut Ray up, thankyou to Chris for putting the boot on t’other foot.
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I have attended Area Committee meetings and must say I have been appalled with the contempt with which the campaigners have been treated, the committee are supposed to be the elected representatives of the public after all and although the investment in Roseville Day Centre, Jack Newell Court & New Bridge House is commendable its hardly going to benefit the population under 55 who wish to exercise now is it. The youth centre has a small indoor hall & outdoor basketball court , not forgetting the proposed health hubs to be placed also outdoor on Jubilee Park (which for probably 8 months of the year are unusable due to the weather) and the Childrens centre doesn’t provide a lot of exercise, so considering the 2 swimming clubs 2 diving clubs, lessons and public use that had to go when Coseley bathsclosed and the rising obesity level I would think that would suggest we need a demonstrable improvement in service really, but it seems the committee only have ears for what they want to hear!!
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As I recall the campaigners asked for a breakdown of the costs involved for repairs that never materialised the figure was plucked out of the air. Yes we remember the closure of Brierley Hill and Cradley Heath, roll on the Olympics Dudley is a Joke! As for swimming at Dudley I tried on Sunday but it was full to capacity and its February what will it be like in July? But wait there is a “proposed” £15 million centre being built in Bilston, when at the cabinet meeting when it was decided to close Coseley Councillor Shakespeare quoted as fact that it was to begin to be built Last April (more lies) Yes it’s a recession so it’s a pity that the Councillors forgot that when they awarded themselves a nice pay rise!! We wont forget your legacy Councillors
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A breakdown of the £2.2 million cost of refurbishing Coseley Baths is not difficult to obtain and neither has Dudley Council exactly kept these figures a secret. For example, we have:-
ROOF CORRODING NEEDS REPLACING IN 6 MONTHS £1,100,000; DISABILITY ACCESS WORKS NEEDED £300,000; SLIDE NEEDS REMOVING £50,000; GANTRY NEEDS TO BE INSTALLED £50.000; VIEWING GALLERY NEEDS UPDATING £20,000; ELECTRICAL REWIRE NEEDED £150,000; IMPROVED LIGHTING LEVELS REQUIRED £40,000; POOL HALL CEILING AND PANELS NEED REPLACING £50,000; FIRE RISK IMPROVEMENTS NEEDED £100,000; POOL PLANT AND FILTER SYSTEM NEEDS REPAIR £30,000′ EXTERNAL SECURITY MEASURES NEEDED £50,000; CONTINGENCIES/PROFESSIONAL FEES £260,000
Bear in mind, all this was just to keep Coseley Baths soldiering on for a few more years. A complete rebuilt to take it well into the century would obviously cost much more (£4 million was quoted).
It may be that I have been saying “could have come from one of the councillors on Dudley Council’s controlling group”. Or, alternatively, it could just as well been obtained by googling the net, which I have just done… http://cmis.dudley.gov.uk/CMISWebPublic/Binary.ashx?Document=13210
Incidentally, I have also googled Hilton Hall in Lanesfield, which John Wilkes mentioned in his post. However, that is a straight-forward dry sports facility. Therefore, the costs involved in running that in no way compare with the more substantial costs involved in running a full-size swimming baths. This might explain why, despite the campaigners’ valiant attempts to interest outside parties in taking over and running Coseley Baths, no one came forward.
However, credit where it’s due; the Bath campaigners have fought tenaciously to preserve a facility that obviously meant a lot to them. It’s just unfortunate that at a time when council budgets are under pressure as never before (and once the new government is compelled to take an axe to our national debt on May 7th things are going to get a lot worse) it was simply not possible to secure the money to ensure this.
PS Lena – “it’s a pity that the Councillors forgot that when they awarded themselves a nice pay rise”. I couldn’t agree more. The only thing I’d say is that it was not just Tory councillors who voted to stuff their pockets!
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Ray, it is not your use of publicly available information which gives the impression that you may be a councillor of the controlling group but the your very partisan stance which is so startlingly like them and unlike the rest of us.
Do you live in the Coseley Baths catchment area (also includes Woodsetton, Gornal, & Sedgley)?
If not, would you have the same attitude if it were your local facility in the same situation.
By comparison with other Dudley Council facilities (including Halesowen which is just as old, is also 33.5 metres and is near to Sandwell’s Haden Hill Leisure Centre), Coseley was badly neglected. Has the money Dudley Council saved in their neglect of th building, paid for the work recommended by the surveyors?
We in Save Coseley Baths already have a copy of the figures you quoted and what we actually asked for, and were never provided with, was a breakdown of each figure!
Am pleased you found Hilton Hall which, granted, is smaller, without the aforementioned roof-slabs, and without the problems associated with an indoor pool. It is, however structurally similar in many ways. For example, it features concrete-coated steel-girder columns. Last year, on being taken ’round there by one of the trustees, I was shown one of these and told that they were confident in being able to strip-away the concrete, treat the girder, and re-coat with concrete. After they have finished, their previously also neglected, “time-expired”, building will be good for many more years to come.
Considering Dudley Council’s reputation of reluctance to allow trusts to take-on buildings, would this have been allowed to happen if Hilton Hall had been in Dudley Metropolitan Borough?
To raise funds for taking-on a Council facility, a trust requires some kind of legal agreement to demonstrate to any funder that said trust has custody of said building sufficient to be allowed to use said funds. Dudley Council have not shown any willingness to facilitate this. If they had done so at an early stage, we would have found out what, if any, funding was available. Also, Consider the leisure-trust model as followed in Sandwell.
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Well done Ray ‘was not just Tory councillors who voted to stuff their pockets!’ it was however just the Tory’s that voted to close Coseley Baths and what I requested is a breakdown of the costs and not a list of them Where is the quote which shows it will cost £1,1000,000 plus £50,000 for the corrosion & panels? Why were the lights not improved when the baths closed to repair the existing ones? What are the external security measures as a large amount has already been spent on high quality fencing all around plus a very good CCTV system? The disability access and slide removal has been known about for probably ten years, the gallery could easily wait till finances improve and what on earth will the £260,000 contingency/professional fess be spent on exactly
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If you take the time and trouble to do your homework, you will see that none of the opposition parties voted against the decision, which they could have done by pressing the vote buttons, neither did they jump to their feet and request a named vote. I have followed this story with interestand have attended every area committee and have been provided with every scrap of info requested. I totally agree with Ray, nothing would appease the protestors so let’s see them put their money where their mouths are and stand in the local elections.Perhaps they could attract funding where the Cllrs and officers have been turned down.
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Pat, so much voting in the Council-Chamber goes on the nod these days because the controlling group has 42 councillors – the rest being 29 in number.
How fair, balanced, and truthful is Council info? It’s a matter of how it’s presented and what is left out.
If the Council was without money to fix Coseley Baths, was it just a matter of having spent it on Halesowen and/or Stourbridge instead? The Council sent us a Freedom of Information reply which revealed that Coseley Baths has been treated as the poor relation for years.
Coseley Baths Campaigners and supporters do put their money where their mouth is. They also expect a fair deal for their council-tax.
On the idea of us attracting funds as councillors, charitable organizations are less well disposed to funding councils and prefer trusts. Also, reference my previous comments on Dudley Council’s reluctance to involve trusts!
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I am a young swimmer in the local area, and over recent years I have improved drastically, it came to a point before Coseley closed that I was swimming 6 times a week with 2 swimming clubs, Saturday being the only day I didn’t swim.
I swam at Coseley because I chose to, largest pool, deepest pool, best facilities for what I wanted, after 11 years of my life without going more than a few days without swimming here (except holidays) I got dragged into a battle I didn’t want to be in, I got dragged into the horrific world of our local council, revealing to me how shoddy the control of my local area is. All I wanted to do was swim at this pool, and after sitting through hours of painstakingly boring meetings it became apparent that the costs were inflated massively and also that the cosmetic side of the bill could be done gradually instead of having to be forked out as one lump sum (so that shuts you up ray, you should listen to what people say to you, you know it may help your ever worsening reputation)
So as a person still at school, how am I supposed to feel when I know that my life has been affected unnecessarily, when this pool was closed by a council that does not care, the people we should be looking up to has treated the campaigners like dirt, they have been ignored, and instead of working with them to find a solution to re-opening the pool they fight against them to ensure it won’t. I have experienced first hand the corruption, such as a roof inspector forcefully entering the building and ignoring staff, climbing into the roof space, without the safety gear needed which is not kept on site, and as he is there a piece of concrete falls into the pool, threatening people’s lives and is just so morally wrong I can’t find words to describe coincidence? No
having swam whilst bats have been flying around the building it is no question of them being there, but without a license and in full public view workmen working with jack hammers inside the building, then a news flash saying bats have left the pool, coincidence? no and before anyone comments on the bats saying they would have left anyway, no they wouldn’t because I have known about them for well over 4 years.
It’s nice to know that good honest people such as Mr. Wilkes, Chris and other campaigners are still fighting, because everything is left to fight for and I hope that this horrid local council is shamed, never to be let in control of anything in the future.
Long live Coseley baths.
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Pat, I am saddened to see that you should think I should have to stand in the local elections to see that the view of the people are represented! you say nothing will appease the protesters but maybe the elected representatives should realise that the public view is that which they Should be representing and not their own tunnel vision? guess that is too much to ask!!
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